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**Official Comm Bank Series - Aus, Ind & SL ODI's***

Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Prince EWS said:
The point I'm making is that the fact that he was successful does not automatically mean his risk/reward assessment was good throughout his innings. Fact of the matter is that Dhoni was able to achieve those last 12 runs because McKay bowled three terrible deliveries; that was completely out of his control, which is the absolute definition of luck. He'd paced it poorly from when he came in to let it get to 12 off 4 required - or indeed even 13 off 9 required. 32 (52) and then 12 (4) - or even 13 (9) - is a lot harder and indeed more prone to wickets falling than 42 (52) and 3 (9). The risks to declined earlier in his innings magnified as the end drew nearer; he had timed it poorly and was lucky to get away with it.

I actually don't even have a problem with you disagreeing with that and thinking it was less risky for him to do what he did given the increased threat of his wicket falling had he tried to score slightly quicker earlier. Agree to disagree and all that. The problem I have is with the assertion that any successful chase was paced correctly as a matter of fact because of the result. If McKay had bowled the perfect over they would've lost which would then make it a poorly placed innings apparently, which is stupid because the quality of the risk/reward assessment at the time is unaffected by what happens after the fact; merely what gives you the best chance at the time. The way Dhoni placed his innings did not give India the best chance they had of winning the match; they just happened to win anyway. If you disagree that's fine but what actually happened in the last 9 balls or whatever shouldn't come into it.
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Winner.
 
benchmark00

benchmark00

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I agree with Crabb in the sense that you can't just look at the outcome and think "yeah must've done a good/poor job."

Obv disagree with his thoughts on Dhoni's innings in this case and also think he's a filthy ****, but that's for a different thread.
 
benchmark00

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Spark said:
Don't block your first twenty balls when it's a powerplay.
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But that's the thing. In a 'normal' situation you attack in the power play right? And what happens when you attack? You increase the risk of getting out, which in turn ****s up the whole team because Dhoni is the man.
 
KiWiNiNjA

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
Prince EWS said:
I actually don't even have a problem with you disagreeing with that and thinking it was less risky for him to do what he did given the increased threat of his wicket falling had he tried to score slightly quicker earlier. Agree to disagree and all that. The problem I have is with the assertion that any successful chase was paced correctly as a matter of fact because of the result. If McKay had bowled the perfect over they would've lost which would then make it a poorly placed innings apparently, which is stupid because the quality of the risk/reward assessment at the time is unaffected by what happens after the fact; merely what gives you the best chance at the time. The way Dhoni placed his innings did not give India the best chance they had of winning the match; they just happened to win anyway. If you disagree that's fine but what actually happened in the last 9 balls or whatever shouldn't come into it.
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If McKay had bowled the perfect over they would've lost which would then make it a poorly placed innings apparently

I don't know where you are getting this from. :wacko:

The way Dhoni placed his innings did not give India the best chance they had of winning the match; they just happened to win anyway.

How do you know this? Do you live in the world where he took more risks and gave India a better chance to win?

Why don't you live in the world where he took more risks, got out, and India lost the match. In that world he should have took less risks.
 
benchmark00

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Going to watch a movie because I don't have to work tomorrow.

If any of you ****s want a piece of me I'll be back in a couple of hours to post why you're such a ****.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Ruckus said:
This whole debate has turned into a steaming pile of horse****, if it wasn't already, that is.
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There have been far worse debates. This is okay, even if both sides are being a bit stubborn.

I think blaming Dhoni for blocking in the powerplay is incorrect for example, even though I agree with the idea that Dhoni didn't play that well.

2 wickets had fallen before the powerplay. If Dhoni goes out it's almost game over. I didn't mind him leaving balls. I would have been annoyed if he then holed out or edged to the keeper though.

It got a bit too much when Raina was set though and Dhoni was still hitting some dot balls.
 
KiWiNiNjA

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
Jono said:
There have been far worse debates. This is okay, even if both sides are being a bit stubborn.
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Nah, I'm not being stubborn.

Too many people with 20-20 hindsight.
Who's to say that India chase the total down if Dhoni scores faster?
 
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