***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE

[CWB304]

CWB, you have to realise that the pitches in the England-Pak game were different to the Pak-Sri Lanka and Pak-RSA games. Maybe it's the climate, or some other reason, but they behaved differently.

In the first Test in Dubai the pitch seemed pretty similar to the way it had been playing in those other matches. There was not much turn and no unpredictable bounce yet somehow Ajmal got 10fer if I recall and England batted lamentably.

Anyway if the pitches were behaving differently from what Pakistan had been used to then wouldn't it have disadvantaged them equally if not more?

 

[hazsa19]

12/18 months? Since the 2009 Ashes decider, he's scored 2010 runs @ 64.84 - that's pretty remarkable for someone who's just averaged 8.5 for a series.

In 2010/11, Michael Clarke averaged 8.75 over 4 innings' in India.

He then averaged 21.44 over 9 innings' at home against England.

Sometimes it happens. Good players have bad series'.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

In the first Test in Dubai the pitch seemed pretty similar to the way it had been playing in those other matches. There was not much turn and no unpredictable bounce yet somehow Ajmal got 10fer if I recall and England batted lamentably.

Anyway if the pitches were behaving differently from what Pakistan had been used to then wouldn't it have disadvantaged them equally if not more?

But it played into Pak's favour.

When we played RSA Steyn was surprisingly **** and there was nothing in it for the quicks. However in this series Anderson, Broad and Gul were brilliant. I mean quicks don't normally average in their 20's on a turner.

 

[hazsa19]

Check the speed gun. Hoggard circa 2005 Ashes series was 10kph quicker than PK. If that counts as "similar speed" for you then so be it.

Speedguns in 2005 had everyone at ridiculous speeds.

 

[Spark]

Broad averaged ~ 20.5 in this series. That would be a good return on a greentop. On these decks, it's nothing short of exceptional.

 

[Jono]

Yeah Broad is just a pure gun right now. Top class.

 

[amanuensis]

In 2010/11, Michael Clarke averaged 8.75 over 4 innings' in India.

He then averaged 21.44 over 9 innings' at home against England.

Sometimes it happens. Good players have bad series'.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick - I'm not having a go at Bell. I'm actually praising him - that figure of 64.84 includes the current series.

 

[CWB304]

And wtf is this garbage? How is the shocking Indian attitude of "it's okay because we'll beat them at home" remotely similar to identifying England's vulnerability to spin bowling as the crucial difference in this series?

Don't quite know what you're getting at but will attempt to answer your question. Complacency is the common denominator between the two attitudes. I don't know anything about "identifying England's vulnerability to spin bowling as the crucial difference in this series". What I do know is that someone was saying "it could have easily been 2-1" and I responded by pointing out the similarities between that mindset and the excuses we were hearing from the Indians about Zak's injuries etc.

There's no point saying "it could easily have been 2-1", because it wasn't 2-1, it was 3-0 and deservedly so. And the whitewash happened because England picked and continued to pick players who are completely inept at playing high class spin bowling. Similarly England beat India 4-0 and did not draw 2-2 or lose 1-3 or any of the other imaginary scorelines that might have transpired had Zak been fit, Tendulkar and Laxman been ten years younger or any of the other hypotheticals which might have changed the result.

When one has the mindset of accepting the result and doing whatever it takes - even dropping previously "undroppable" players - to make sure it doesn't happen again, one is half way to being successful. When one is retreating to fantasies of "if Zak had been fit" or "if our batsmen had only batted properly we'd have easily won 2-1" then one is no where closer to solving his issues.

 

[hazsa19]

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick - I'm not having a go at Bell. I'm actually praising him - that figure of 64.84 includes the current series.

Fair enough. Was aimed at ABC123 and the wider 'drop our entire middle order' gang.

Don't quite know what you're getting at but will attempt to answer your question. Complacency is the common denominator between the two attitudes. I don't know anything about "identifying England's vulnerability to spin bowling as the crucial difference in this series". What I do know is that someone was saying "it could have easily been 2-1" and I responded by pointing out the similarities between that mindset and the excuses we were hearing from the Indians about Zak's injuries etc.

There's no point saying "it could easily have been 2-1", because it wasn't 2-1, it was 3-0 and deservedly so. And the whitewash happened because England picked and continued to pick players who are completely inept at playing high class spin bowling. Similarly England beat India 4-0 and did not draw 2-2 or lose 1-3 or any of the other imaginary scorelines that might have transpired had Zak been fit, Tendulkar and Laxman been ten years younger or any of the other hypotheticals which might have changed the result.

When one has the mindset of accepting the result and doing whatever it takes - even dropping previously "undroppable" players - to make sure it doesn't happen again, one is half way to being successful. When one is retreating to fantasies of "if Zak had been fit" or "if our batsmen had only batted properly we'd have easily won 2-1" then one is no where closer to solving his issues.

Ah right ok. But that would make more sense if a member of the England team/ management team/ ecb had come out with the 'could have been 2-1' comment rather than someone on CW.

I don't know how you could construed any comments coming from the team as 'complacent'.

 

[CWB304]

Speedguns in 2005 had everyone at ridiculous speeds.

Gee, I guess you just won that argument then.

I watched that series with my own eyes and yes Jones and Harmison and Flintoff were a bit quicker, but not by that much and Hoggard was comfortably in the mid-80s (MPH). I'm going with my eyes and by visual comparison with Lee on the other side.

PK in MPH terms just looks much much slower and the difference IMO can be seen with the naked eye. The speed gun was saying he was averaging around 77-78 MPH last summer which sounds about right.

If you want to dismiss all speedgun readings you don't like as "ridiculous" then be my guest. No doubt you'll be telling us next that PK is express but the speedguns just don't show it.

 

[hazsa19]

Gee, I guess you just won that argument then.

I watched that series with my own eyes and yes Jones and Harmison and Flintoff were a bit quicker, but not by that much and Hoggard was comfortably in the mid-80s (MPH). I'm going with my eyes and by visual comparison with Lee on the other side.

PK in MPH terms just looks much much slower and the difference IMO can be seen with the naked eye. The speed gun was saying he was averaging around 77-78 MPH last summer which sounds about right.

If you want to dismiss all speedgun readings you don't like as "ridiculous" then be my guest. No doubt you'll be telling us next that PK is express but the speedguns just don't show it.

Gee. I guess you won that argument then.

According to the speedguns, Hoggard spent a good deal of his career bowling no faster than 80mph.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Come on guys. What's up with all the arguing.

 

[silentstriker]

Ashraf said the victory over England should be treated as a stepping stone to even bigger achievements for Pakistan. "We should not get overjoyed over this Test victory because our journey isn't complete," he said. "Our aim is to build a consistent and stable team for the next World Cup and I have already told all the cricket experts to ensure it."

Can the Test championship get here already so that the teams can plan to peak at during that, just like they do in the WC?

 

[honestbharani]

Can the Test championship get here already so that the teams can plan to peak at during that, just like they do in the WC?

They are finally gelling well as a test unit and all he cares about is building a stable ODI side. lol

 

[silentstriker]

Is it a requirement that the PCB chief be a complete moron that undermines his team or has it just been a long series of coincidences?

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Come on guys. What's up with all the arguing.

 

[smash84]

Yeah even by his own standards that was atrocious

Anyway I'm glad that people whose teams got obliterated by us have used this series to obtain some sort of revenge via proxy because it reminds me why my posting got bad enough for me to receive a six month sentence. Holy ****ing ****.

To Fusion, Agent N, Faisal, salman, smiley, np10, Z Man and the rest- it's been a pleasure talking to you guys throughout this torrid series. I hope you enjoyed it.

To all you parasites who didn't watch a ball but feel qualified to pass judgement and have jumped into this thread to gloat, I look forwards to you ****ing off again when we bounce back.

Thanks GIMH

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

We are third overall.

woohoo.......great stats

Is it a requirement that the PCB chief be a complete moron that undermines his team or has it just been a long series of coincidences?

a product of the awesome system that we have tbh. Ensures morons

 

[Nomanculture]

Bell dropped from the LO squad. Briggs and Buttler come in. Guess Buttler proved a point in that series v SL A.

 

[smash84]

Btw I must take this ocassion to say that the English fans have been quite sporting all throughout this series and (barring some statements which seem outlandish in retrospect) even to the buildup of this series.

I can safely say that had Pakistan been on the recieving end of such a drubbing (and I daresay any other SC team) its fans wouldn't have shown up.

Well done Jake, GIMH, GF, Woodster (with some great analysis) CWB304 (awesome posts), flibbertyjibber, and some of the others that I may have missed.

additionally PEWS has generally been gun in this thread except for some of his dire predictions regarding Pakistan's pace bowling

 

[Xuhaib]

I think people who are talking about England being unlucky for not winning 2-1 are seriously understating this Pakistani side ability to come back from difficult situations. Some of the good Pakistani sides had this ability however for the past 4-5 years we seemed to have lost this trait infact we were constantly allowing the opposition to come back in the game.

Also slightly disappointed at lack of Azhar Ali love shown here he was comfortably the best batsman in a series where there were atleast 7-8 world class batsman atleast statistically and both his big knocks came in a clutch situation. He may not be pretty to watch but is a very good old fashioned test match batsman.