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***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE

Who do you think will win?!

  • Total voters
    88
Turbinator

Turbinator

Cricketer Of The Year
Reckon' we need lots of spice, controversy and Jerry Springer style action with the round table.

I kid you not I will pay to hear a round table debate with Benchmark, Gvenkat, HB, GIMH, Furball, and Sledger. Would be epic.
 
Agent Nationaux

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
Well we don't play enough tests to become no. 1, so realistically we won't get that far. And due to the conditions our batsmen play under, we will do poorly in England and South Africa. People like Azhar and Shafiq do have technical faults when it comes to swing bowling. World class bowlers like Anderson and Broad will cheaply get us out. Our only salvation is if we unearth some top class fast bowlers who can do the same to England and RSA.

But at the moment I am only looking at over taking India and Australia. We need to forget about being no. 1, focus on each series as they come and at the least not lose any of the series.
 
Agent Nationaux

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
Turbinator said:
Reckon' we need lots of spice, controversy and Jerry Springer style action with the round table.

I kid you not I will pay to hear a round table debate with Benchmark, Gvenkat, HB, GIMH, Furball, and Sledger. Would be epic.
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GIMH, Sledger and Furby will form a clique. Gvenkat and HB will form another clique and Benchmark will enjoy sledging both sides. :laugh: I would love to listen to that. Need Burgey in that debate.
 
Turbinator

Turbinator

Cricketer Of The Year
Agent Nationaux said:
GIMH, Sledger and Furby will form a clique. Gvenkat and HB will form another clique and Benchmark will enjoy sledging both sides. :laugh: I would love to listen to that. Need Burgey in that debate.
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Thought about adding Burgey, but decided against it last minute. Don't think people his age are all that with technology.
 
A

amanuensis

U19 12th Man
Woodster said:
Firstly congratulations to Pakistan, they continue to go from strength to strength, to beat the number one Test side in the world 3-0 is quite an achievement. Over the course of the series the severe stronghold Ajmal and Rehman held over our batsmen decided the outcome, they deceived England with their lengths, the mystery that Ajmal holds, and the constant unerring accuracy of the pair meant none of our top seven found any real true form.

I have looked through some posts in this thread and am still working out exactly where I stand on some of the points discussed. It's obviously an understatement to say our batsmen under-performed but are wholesale changes the answer ? I'm currently siding with no they aren't but then shouldn't there be repercussions for such an inept collective batting unit ?

I'm convinced Ian Bell is a good enough player at this level, he isn't the soft touch people once thought he was where he only flourished when the going was good. He has proved on enough occasions that he can score runs when we need him to, but I also don't think we can put this down to just one of those series. He, along with KP, has a lot of work to do on his game in the SC, but he can still be a pivotal player in the summer ahead and deserves another crack on the SC in Sri Lanka.

It's easy to suit one's own argument to say the runs he has scored in the last 12/18 months have all been against bad bowling, I don't buy that, nor do I buy the fact he cannot succeed against the best.

Eoin Morgan is going to be the man that comes under the more intense scrutiny. Bell and KP have proved they can conquer most situations at this level, Morgan has much to prove and may be the scapegoat from this series when it is indeed the more experienced that should have taken the lead.

Can we afford to set-up with the same batting line-up in SL ? Unfortunately this series, for me, has provided many more questions than answers, I just hope we have found the answers before the end of the Indian series.
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12/18 months? Since the 2009 Ashes decider, he's scored 2010 runs @ 64.84 - that's pretty remarkable for someone who's just averaged 8.5 for a series.
 
C

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
OhhhhMattyMatty said:
Pakistan were clear and deserved winners, but England will look back at two 70 run defeats and think, if 1 of the top 6 performed in this series, we'd have won 2-1.

The likes of Samit Patel, Ravi Bopara, James Taylor and Jonny Bairstow will all come into consideration for places in the squad to Sri Lanka. Patel, given how well he played the spinners in India is an absolute must and would come in at 6 or 7 for me, while Taylor has struggled in the subcontinent this Winter and may well lose out to Ravi Bopara.

Morgan should be gone for a while in the longer format. While Pietersen is in the last chance saloon for me. Bell needs to show something in the subcontinent, as he's obviously world class everywhere else, but we can't carry him again like we did in Pakistan. Strauss needs to show he can score tons again too!

Ajmal's displays were stunning and he is clearly the world's best spinner. Made Swann look utterly ordinary by comparison and Swann had a fairly decent series, given the lack of lefties on show.
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Have highlighted above three prime examples of typical woolly-headed thinking by clueless England fans; dealing with them as follows:

1) England lost 3-0 because batsmen like Pietersen and Bell are clueless and cannot play top class spin in these conditions. "If 1 of the top 6 performed in this series, we'd have won 2-1" is like my saying that if I were tall, good looking and a rich Hollywood star then Angelina Jolie would be my wife. The game is played in the real world, not in a fantasy world in which players like Bell and Pietersen suddenly become 100 per cent better than they are because you want them to be. The three main culprits (nos 4, 5 and 6) had six innings each in this series and failed each time with a high score by I believe Pietersen in the 30s. That is miserable; not "if they performed" territory, but clearly "they obviously can't perform" territory. I was confident predicting that Bell and Pietersen would average 15-20 in the series (in the event an under-estimate; they averaged 8.5 and 11 respectively) not because I am a seer but because having seen them bat over the years I was certain that, such is their level of ineptitude against top class spin in tricky conditions, they could each have twenty innings against this Pakistan attack in these conditions and never once get to 50.

2) More rubbish. You're either world class or you're not. It doesn't change depending on the pitch you're playing on. Bell has never done anything to so much as hint that he is genuinely world class in his career, which is why he is only regarded as such by a few credulous England fans, who seem incapable of appreciating the difference between a pleasant English summer afternoon unfurling a succession of gorgeous shots against the likes of Ishant Sharma and finding a way of somehow making tough runs when your team really needs them and you're having trouble picking a dangerous spinner's variations in difficult conditions. Bell had six opportunities to prove he's world class this series - six. And blew them all. But no worries, mugs like you still repeat the mantra. It's embarrassing. Kumar Sangakkara played this same Pakistan side three months ago and like someone else remarked he had major problems picking Ajmal, playing for turn to the straight ones and vice versa numerous times even when well set. Yet he toughed it out and got 516 runs for his team at 86 including a century and a double. That is world class. Ian Bell? Kevin Pietersen? You must be joking.

3) No, Ajmal was made to look more dangerous than he is because of the ineptitude of England's batsmen, particularly Bell, Morgan and Pietersen. He is NOT clearly the best spinner in the world; there are questions about his action for one. If his most dangerous delivery the doosra which to the naked eye looks to many people like it is chucked is looked at again by the authorities and he is forced either to modify the way he delivers it or scrap it altogether then it could be that he may end up being a much less effective proposition. Even as it is there are bowlers such as Swann and his teammate Rehman who more or less match him statistically and over whom there are no such question marks about the legality of their actions. Anyway this is not an "Ajmal is a chucker" post but a corrective to the typical English reflex "he destroyed us so he must be the best in the world" which we've all seen played out so many times it is beyond a joke. It is a subtle and insidious form of self-congratulation. Ajmal for me is very good but for now nowhere close to the Murali and Warne level. If Sangakkara can play him and score 516 runs at 86 then why can't the English batting heroes some of whom no doubt have made yours and/or other English fans' world elevens ahead of him?
 
Agent Nationaux

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
CWB, you have to realise that the pitches in the England-Pak game were different to the Pak-Sri Lanka and Pak-RSA games. Maybe it's the climate, or some other reason, but they behaved differently.
 
C

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
hazsa19 said:
Don't agree with that at all. He's an old fashioned swing bowler and has deserved his success in Test Cricket. He reminds me of Hoggard, someone who bowled a similar speed. He won't take a wicket every 30 balls, but he's a quality Test Match bowler.
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Check the speed gun. Hoggard circa 2005 Ashes series was 10kph quicker than PK. If that counts as "similar speed" for you then so be it.
 
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