*** Official New Zealand Domestic Cricket 2011/2012 ***

[Flem274*]

Well Boult doesn't seem to be in contention for the format McClenaghan has excelled in thus far, so it might not even matter.

But still, huge amount of water left to flow under the bridge. McClenaghan is yet to play a Shield game since his comeback and Boult has lots of Shield wickets and a good start to his test career behind him. Hopefully he isn't going anywhere any time soon. With Wagner, Wheeler and McKay around and taking wickets, there's huge competition for a left armer only just starting his comeback.

edit: lol convo moved on. thats what I get for leaving and finishing later.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I don't think TH and Heef are that hung up on the T20 team either I get the feeling that is the whole principal of a "poor" player being selected to represent NZ.

I could be wrong though - will let them answer for themselves.

Look, England went through this whole idea of picking 20:20 specialists 5 years ago and it didn't work. If you want to take 20:20 seriously, you'll be better off picking your best 11 players. If you think it's a bit of a hit and giggle, then pick **** players, but don't waste your time picking any decent players in those circumstances. Dimi Mascarenhas is a considerably better player than CdG, but yet he was not good enough.

 

[Mike5181]

Good to see Matt Henry's still performing.

 

[thierry henry]

I don't think TH and Heef are that hung up on the T20 team either I get the feeling that is the whole principal of a "poor" player being selected to represent NZ.

I could be wrong though - will let them answer for themselves.

Sort of. I don't care much about T20 and actually couldn't even tell you to a great degree of certainty which of our established internationals have been good and bad at T20- it was only pointed out to me recently how Oram has struggled with the ball in T20, for example.

I also have no problem with a player who excels in T20 being picked even if he would overall fit my definition of a "poor cricketer" who was no good at either 50-over or FC cricket.

However I still appreciate that it means something to be picked for NZ and so I definitely have a problem with a player I perceive to be a crap domestic cricketer generally AND a crap T20 player being picked. It is a kick in the guts for domestic players who have actually put something on the board and for fans who care about performance being rewarded.

It is also a perpetuation of one of my great bugbears which is NZ selectors going out of their way to pick the absolute worst performing domestic players they can (you'd think this would bug other fans too but most don't seem to mind).

 

[Flem274*]

CDG is so going to ton up now. Pity I'll be in the wop wops and won't be able to watch Steve gloat.

 

[SteveNZ]

Talent for a batsman= ability to score runs.

Worst ever stuff you've "had to endure"= based on the fact I literally do not know of any other player picked as a batsman for a long time on a consistent basis who was so unable to score runs. So yep, worst ever that I can think of atm.

And based on all you've seen you don't believe Colin has the ability to score runs? The guy has a strike rate of 170 in T20. He can play all the shots in the book. Pace doesn't worry him, spin can go the distance too. What he lacks is the ability to put together an innings, to correctly adapt himself to a situation. You ask most bowlers/players on the domestic scene who the most flat-out talented batsmen around are and I guarantee Colin's name comes up.

I can absolutely appreciate the indifference to his selection. To be fair I didn't know his one-day numbers especially were so average. What his selection owes to, I believe, is based on the ability and the fact they back that having the best available coaches, facilities and fellow players around him will fulfill his potential.

As for Mitch McC, he's gone well in the last 3-4 games but I'd suggest he's got a fair way to prove himself for higher honours. He's got to stay fit, be a lot more consistent and to be honest, grow up. His performance with the bat on Sunday was embarrasingly immature.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

He can play all the shots in the book.

Back foot defensive play of any sort?

 

[Days of Grace]

I'd have him in my team if he could guarantee 30 off 17 or even 25 off 10 every time he batted. Wouldn't bat him higher than no.6, though.

Despite the fact that it is only 20 overs, if you are 25/3 off 4, you need at least to take stock for a couple of overs, and one guy to drop anchor, and by that I mean score at a snail-like run-a-ball pace yet still keep his wicket.

 

[SteveNZ]

Back foot defensive play of any sort?

Had a tendency to get out to the short ball in seasons gone by..can't recall the last time he did.

As I said, they aren't picking him on his record. His record is frankly mud. They're picking him on potential. It's happening more and more in sport now. The All Blacks have done it, the Aussie cricket team have been doing it, now John Wright is doing it.

 

[Mike5181]

It's T20 they're picking Collin de Grandhomme because he can finish off an innings. His 35-ball 66 the other day against Mason, Milne and Small showed that.

 

[Hurricane]

Look, England went through this whole idea of picking 20:20 specialists 5 years ago and it didn't work. If you want to take 20:20 seriously, you'll be better off picking your best 11 players. If you think it's a bit of a hit and giggle, then pick **** players, but don't waste your time picking any decent players in those circumstances. Dimi Mascarenhas is a considerably better player than CdG, but yet he was not good enough.

I probably fall into the category of not wanting to take 20 20 seriously. My reason for wanting specialists is
a) They won't have their technique corrupted for tests
and
b) I can watch other players play particularly up and comers.

When it comes time for a world cup of 20 20 I might actually care and want our best 11.

I know that NZ cricket can't take my attitude and needs to try to win otherwise the crowds won't come to the games - so this is just my view.

 

[thierry henry]

And based on all you've seen you don't believe Colin has the ability to score runs? The guy has a strike rate of 170 in T20. He can play all the shots in the book. Pace doesn't worry him, spin can go the distance too. What he lacks is the ability to put together an innings, to correctly adapt himself to a situation. You ask most bowlers/players on the domestic scene who the most flat-out talented batsmen around are and I guarantee Colin's name comes up.

No, I don't believe he has the ability to score runs. The other day the bloke scored his first 50 in 5 years of relatively consistent selection. I don't see how much more definitive it can get. So far I'd say every sort of bowling has worried him. It all gets him out before he makes a score.

 

[SteveNZ]

I probably fall into the category of not wanting to take 20 20 seriously. My reason for wanting specialists is
a) They won't have their technique corrupted for tests
and
b) I can watch other players play particularly up and comers.

When it comes time for a world cup of 20 20 I might actually care and want our best 11.

I know that NZ cricket can't take my attitude and needs to try to win otherwise the crowds won't come to the games - so this is just my view.

Noble, and I wouldn't actually mind seeing 11 specialists either. I think we might be on our way to that one day. But you're going to have to pick nigh-on your best XI right through if you want them at World Cups, otherwise the make-up of the team is all over the show.

And I'm done discussing Colin. New Zealand selectors picked him, that'll do me.

 

[Kippax]

Where are CW's posters at with Wagner these days? Automatic pick test squad, GTFO shorter forms?

Every other time I check his figures this summer he's been smacked by domestics for 70+ off 10, almost as if he's choking as his E-Day finally looms. Career SR is good (31) but career RPO disappoints, 5.25.

 

[Mike5181]

You'd think our perception of guys like Southee test bowling-wise will change after the test series against South Africa. Personally I think he will be in the squad for the test series against the West Indies. I wouldn't put him near the ODI side much like Trent Boult at the moment.

 

[Kippax]

See the issue has actually been getting some column inches in the last few days down south -
Cricket: Wagner looking to take control | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News

 

[Mike5181]

Even if he doesn't find a place in the test side Chris Martin will eventually retire so a place opens up when that happens. His extra batting ability will help his case especially with the selectors going with four seamers + Vettori at the moment.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I think he is more of a Test option.

He does go for a fair bit, it seems.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah I picture his bowling as big swinging half volleys, based on what I've heard and seen. Not a guy to put the brakes on at all.

 

[Mike5181]

Anaru Kitchen had a great game for Auckland. He scored 110 not out off 81 deliveries then had a bowl and finished with 52/3.