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How would you rank the bowling attacks in world cricket as of today ?

Howe_zat

Audio File
Looked back at what I said in this thread, it rather was claptrap, I was riding on a post-Ashes high and put Australia below Sri Lanka. Ah well.

Though, on the same page I did find this mini-essay about removing stats vs minnows, and given it'd be among the first serious posts I made here I reckon I'm proud of it.

Well that's a very interesting concept, and most of the overall weakness in cricketing statistics that they often don't reflect the match situation.

However, getting a better reflection on how "important" your match performance can work in the opposite direction and removing weaker sides from the equation isn't the answer.

Firstly, there is the issue of being able to capitalize in the right situations as oppose to scoring when it is easy, which we count and which we don't.

Which innings was easier, for example - Jonathan Trott's hundred against Bangladesh, scoring against a poor attack but early in the game on an early-season English wicket while under personal pressure to deliver - or Matt Prior's hundred at Sydney, coming in with the aim to stamp a half-beaten and demoralised attack on a flat deck.

It's not as simple as it sounds, so why do we pick so easily?

Then there's the matter of what those playing for a weaker team might achieve. Take Shakib Al Hasan for example. In your post you used the slightly unfair qualifier "test-standard" to distiguish against his performances in ODIs against Zimbabwe or Tests against a depleted West Indies unit in 2009.

People who remove Bangladesh from averages might have removed that side too. But for Shakib, he was going on tour with the first reasonable chance he has ever had of winning. The runs and wickets he got there will mean a tremendous amount to him and indeed he had a huge effect on that series. So by your own standards those are the runs that count the most.

Conversely, suggesting that performances that don't affect the match situation don't count could suggest you'd remove Shakib's excellent bowling effort in South Africa. He never helped his side win, they never even came close. But you would have to admit it's unfair to take that series away from him personally.

It's not just Bangladesh of course - would you remove the stats of, say, Vaughan in Australia, just because his runs didn't effect the outcome of the series?

These are obviously delicate and trying to adjust the stats to reflect the competitiveness is clearly a lot more complicated than just removing Bangladesh from the equation. So we have no choice but to keep them in.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I think I agree, but I'm not really sure now given Hilf's impressive comeback. Would be tempted to think at this stage Pattinson, Harris, Hilf and Lyon could be our best combination. Pattinson, Harris and Siddle are all a tad too similar for my liking. Then of course, there is Cummins, but it's hard to gauge just how good he is/how ready he is after one match. Definately a very good problem to have though.
Hmm, I think Harris is probably more similar to Hilfenhaus than he is to Siddle or Pattinson.
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
nah SA has a superior attack.

2 drawn series away to Ind.
This Eng attack has to produce in Asia.
Oh and there is a small matter of a test series vs ind in about 6 months time.
Me get's a feeling Cook Trott Swann and Jimmy are going to struggle.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
New rankings?

1. England
2. South Africa
3. Australia
4. West Indies
5. New Zealand
6. Pakistan
7. India
8. Sri Lanka
9. Zimbabwe
10. Bangladesh
Are WI and NZ bowling attacks better than Pak bowling attack?

Doesn't seem to me. Or am I missing something?
 

morgieb

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Zimbabwe v Sri Lanka would be genuinely interesting. Jarvis is definitely better than all Sri Lanka's quicks now IMO and Price isn't that far off Herath.
Sri Lanka's batting is still quite good though, so I'd expect them to win.

Having said that, I agree.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Sri Lanka's batting is still quite good though, so I'd expect them to win.

Having said that, I agree.
Oh Sri Lanka would hammer Zimbabwe in a Test series; no doubt. I meant "Zimbabwe v Sri Lanka" in a comparing-their-bowlers kind of way only.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Zimbabwe v Sri Lanka would be genuinely interesting. Jarvis is definitely better than all Sri Lanka's quicks now IMO and Price isn't that far off Herath.
Herath >>>> Price
Welegrada >>>> All
Fernando's pace is also putting SA on the backfoot. Or something.
 

Mike5181

International Captain
1.England
2.South Africa
3.Australia
4.Pakistan
5.West Indies
6.New Zealand
7.India
8.Zimbabwe
9.Sri Lanka
10.Bangladesh
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
whatttt, how so?
All of those bowlers are actually getting increasingly similar and I don't really think it's a bad thing because what they're all doing works, but Harris and Hilfenhaus are predominantly full outswing new ball bowlers. Both Siddle and Pattinson have recently taken to bowling fuller and getting more outswing themselves but they're more natural in going back to slightly shorter stuff, hitting the splice etc.
 

Burgey

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Looked back at what I said in this thread, it rather was claptrap, I was riding on a post-Ashes high and put Australia below Sri Lanka. Ah well.

Though, on the same page I did find this mini-essay about removing stats vs minnows, and given it'd be among the first serious posts I made here I reckon I'm proud of it.
Nah, it's still no good a year or so on.
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
Zimbabwe v Sri Lanka would be genuinely interesting. Jarvis is definitely better than all Sri Lanka's quicks now IMO and Price isn't that far off Herath.
I haven't really seen much of Jarvis so I won't comment on that, but Herath's comfortably better than Price. Price is really just a containing bowler, and has his international reputation built on ODIs. and while Herath is in the same vein, he's bowled some fine spells of Test spin bowling in several countries. Herath's a drift and flight bowler, Price just darts it in.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
It's hard to compare lists with this time last year because I think pretty much every attack has actually improved a little bit, bar Sri Lanka's. Could have a case of a team's attack being better now than it was a year ago but actually going down in the rankings by a place or two due to the improvement of some of the others.

I will say though that Pakistan having a top-line attack is seriously over-rated idea, probably due alone to the fact that they're Pakistan and people just assume they have good fast bowlers. They don't have a terrible attack by any means and they get the job done decently enough but it's not top in the top half of the world IMO and if anything it's Ajmal that keeps them decent. Gul, Cheema, Junaid, Riaz - not crap, but meh.
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I haven't really seen much of Jarvis so I won't comment on that, but Herath's comfortably better than Price. Price is really just a containing bowler, and has his international reputation built on ODIs. and while Herath is in the same vein, he's bowled some fine spells of Test spin bowling in several countries. Herath's a drift and flight bowler, Price just darts it in.
Yeah I don't really disagree; was just fanboying really.
 

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