***Official*** New Zealand in Australia 2011

[flibbertyjibber]

Hughes was never really found out though. What really happened is that the Australian selectors were being complete dicks and dropped him after 3 poor innings and then proceeded to blame it on his technique. This shattered his confidence and he subsequently went on an extended run of bad form. It's not his fault that the selectors totally screwed him.

So Mark Lathwell revisited then.

 

[Furball]

It's ok I'll do it for you. Within the last year, under Clarke's captaincy he has bowled long spells (20 overs or more) 3 times. The last time he has had to bowl spells 20 overs or more was back in 2008, when he wasn't opening. On average he has also bowled around 4 more overs per innings, that last year.

How's his ODI workload been in the same timeframe?

 

[Top_Cat]

McGrath wouldn't have been picked for the last few years of his career if he wasn't McGrath.

Not buying it, tbh. Aside from bowling with the same arm, McG and Copeland bowl different lines, lengths and tactics. That and McG's seam movement made him seem quicker than he was whilst Copeland strikes me as a bloke who comes on slower than you think. Would be very different propositions to face either of them and it's got little, in my view, to do with the pace they bowl at.

Just got to look at how McGrath bowled at Lords in 2005. Was hovering at 130Km/h the whole spell I reckon yet beat the defensive strokes of the whole top-order like he was bowling 10Km/h quicker. That's the bit someone like Copeland is missing because it's less important how quick you bowl and more important how quick you feel onto the bat. That's what people mean when they say someone bowls a heavy ball. Hitting the seam is key.

 

[diteras aka.]

So Mark Lathwell revisited then.

lets just see if he makes a comeback in the Devon leagues aged 39 before we rate him as that good

 

[flibbertyjibber]

lets just see if he makes a comeback in the Devon leagues aged 39 before we rate him as that good

Similar though, picked on a fanfare when very young, technically found out and slaughtered. Lathwell was very fragile and completely crumbled and left the game, in Hughes favour is that he has stuck it out despite not being good enough.

 

[NUFAN]

It's ok I'll do it for you. Within the last year, under Clarke's captaincy he has bowled long spells (20 overs or more) 3 times. The last time he has had to bowl spells 20 overs or more was back in 2008, when he wasn't opening. On average he has also bowled around 4 more overs per innings, that last year.

Watson has never bowled a 20 over spell.

CA managed him quite well really. He played in the CL T20 as just a batsman and he didn't bowl in the second innings of the A match against South Africa.

Injuries happen, it's no surprise that the cricketer who has the highest workload across the 3 formats gets injured. I personally think he should come into the team against NZ and just play as a batsman.

 

[Ruckus]

How's his ODI workload been in the same timeframe?

Can't be bothered adding it up, but just by looking at the numbers on the page it looks the same as ever (which isn't suprising). It's his test bowling workload which has increased because Clarke has openly made it clear that is what he wants out of him.

 

[Ruckus]

Watson has never bowled a 20 over spell.

CA managed him quite well really. He played in the CL T20 as just a batsman and he didn't bowl in the second innings of the A match against South Africa.

Injuries happen, it's no surprise that the cricketer who has the highest workload across the 3 formats gets injured. I personally think he should come into the team against NZ and just play as a batsman.

Sorry I didn't mean spell, I meant 20 overs in an innings.

Anyway, from the horses mouth:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cricket/shane-watson-admits-he-is-struggling-to-handle-demands-as-allrounder/story-fn67w6pa-1226209374885

 

[Furball]

Can't be bothered adding it up, but just by looking at the numbers on the page it looks the same as ever (which isn't suprising). It's his test bowling workload which has increased because Clarke has openly made it clear that is what he wants out of him.

Or Clarke has been forced to bowl him more because his frontline quicks aren't doing it for him. Watson's 2010 figures include matches like Perth where the frontline quicks (or at least Johnson and Harris) were bowling so well that Watson wasn't needed.

 

[SteveNZ]

I know Australian fans won't give a flying about this (and nor should they) but I want to know why the hell Arnel is going over there.

Is it a rark-up for our bowlers? Surely the batsmen deserve that more. Our batting let us down in Brisbane, plain and simple. I thought Martin bowled well, Bracewell had good periods and was unlucky and Vettori was Vettori. Southee was by and large rubbish, and you can include his batting in that. So maybe it's a rocket at him?

Can't be for a like-for-like net bowler, as Arnel doesn't resemble any Australians. I doubt he'll play, unless there's something about Hobart that suits a 130km/ph tall seamer that doesn't do a whole lot more than hit reasonable areas and the strings every now and then?

I do not get it. Surely bringing in a batsman in form in domestic cricket (sorry, but Franklin is probably that man) is the way to go.

Good news for Mitchell McClenaghan fans (and I know you all are) - he's over there too on unofficial duty, bowling to them on NZ. A Starc clone, of sorts. And he's back fit and bowling, for the best club side in the country

 

[Furball]

Not buying it, tbh. Aside from bowling with the same arm, McG and Copeland bowl different lines, lengths and tactics. That and McG's seam movement made him seem quicker than he was whilst Copeland strikes me as a bloke who comes on slower than you think. Would be very different propositions to face either of them and it's got little, in my view, to do with the pace they bowl at.

Just got to look at how McGrath bowled at Lords in 2005. Was hovering at 130Km/h the whole spell I reckon yet beat the defensive strokes of the whole top-order like he was bowling 10Km/h quicker. That's the bit someone like Copeland is missing because it's less important how quick you bowl and more important how quick you feel onto the bat. That's what people mean when they say someone bowls a heavy ball. Hitting the seam is key.

I think a McGrath clone ripping up the Shield would have struggled to be picked because there would have been doubts about his lack of pace. Not saying Copeland is a clone of McGrath but I definitely think there's less trust in his success because he doesn't bowl quickly.

 

[Batista1]

good effort by Aus, a very raw attack that seemed to bowl well (at times)

im starting to really like the look of Lyon and the way he bowls

the bowling attack for the future should be harris, cummins, pattinson and lyon. the future is upon us people and its looking bright for Australia

 

[Spark]

Thing is, the reason Watson was required so much in SL (and in Cape Town) was primarily because he was one of the only "frontline" bowlerz we had able to do the seemingly simple task of bowl good length balls on off stump and also consistently obtain conventional or reverse swing. Which none of our other quicks seemed capable of (reverse swing in SL in particular).

Hopefully the new breed of outswing quicks like the Pats will mean he's less required in that role.

 

[hazsa19]

good effort by Aus, a very raw attack that seemed to bowl well (at times)

im starting to really like the look of Lyon and the way he bowls

the bowling attack for the future should be harris, cummins, pattinson and lyon. the future is upon us people and its looking bright for Australia

I honestly think Test Cricket could be in for a thrilling few years. England, South Africa, India, and Australia all look like fielding competitive sides.

 

[social]

Similar though, picked on a fanfare when very young, technically found out and slaughtered. Lathwell was very fragile and completely crumbled and left the game, in Hughes favour is that he has stuck it out despite not being good enough.

Whilst I dont think that Hughes should be in the team, let's not forget that he slaughtered Steyn and co with a technique your average blacksmith would be ashamed of.

The kid is obviously a genius when it comes to hand/eye co-ordination but, I suspect, mentally fragile/quite immature atm

Lathwell was just another in a long line of hacks produced by England at the time, no more capable of scoring a 100 against Steyn than me and comparisons between he and Hughes are an insult

 

[social]

I honestly think Test Cricket could be in for a thrilling few years. England, South Africa, India, and Australia all look like fielding competitive sides.

India are in deep **** IMO

Great at home but very ordinary away (i.e. situation normal) and that situation will only get worse as their greats retire

 

[Uppercut]

Hughes was never really found out though. What really happened is that the Australian selectors were being complete dicks and dropped him after 3 poor innings and then proceeded to blame it on his technique. This shattered his confidence and he subsequently went on an extended run of bad form. It's not his fault that the selectors totally screwed him.

Even if that were true, it's not the selectors' fault if Hughes is too much of a massive ***** to be left out of the side for a few games without turning into a phenomenally crap batsman for two and a half years.

 

[Spark]

India are in deep **** IMO

Great at home but very ordinary away (i.e. situation normal) and that situation will only get worse as their greats retire

let's wait until they tour here first before saying that. ordinary away is based on playing england who had an attack bowling mostly 140kmh handgrenades (and swinging it both ways)

 

[Spark]

Even if that were true, it's not the selectors' fault if Hughes is too much of a massive ***** to be left out of the side for a few games without turning into a phenomenally crap batsman for two and a half years.

It's not that simple though. It's not that he just turned to poo without reason, he was going through a fundamental reworking of his technique. Name me a single batsmen who would score heavily against quality bowlers in the middle of doing that.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

let's wait until they tour here first before saying that. ordinary away is based on playing england who had an attack bowling mostly 140kmh handgrenades (and swinging it both ways)

Well looking at how Australia have struggled without the stars you can only imagine the same happening to India when their stars retire.