Australia - where to from here

[Top_Cat]

Siddle is a tricky one, I know he's hardly helped himself by being so bloody inconsistent, but I think he's been handled poorly. There were some promising signs from him throughout the Ashes, plenty of tripe but a couple of real standout performances, then he's out of the side on the basis a couple of poor spells against Zimababwe, then he's back in for the third test in SRL and bowling very well, now it looks like he's going to be dropped again despite not being nearly as poor as Johnson. I think they've got to stop messing him about, either you think he's got what it takes, in which case back him and give him a sustained spell in the side to establish himself, or alternatively send him back to Shield cricket for a season and give him some things to work on, stop having a bob each way.

He'll always be a 'bob each way' squad bowler. Too good to play Shield cricket for the rest of his career but not good enough to stay in the Test side for a prolong stretch if he's not in form. The main benefit of a bloke that is that he'll always give his best and you know what you get so you can pick him as team balance/injuries dictate, good support to a genuine attack leader, good to have around the squad, etc. But, short of some fairly drastic changes in his MO, I doubt he'll ever get a prolonged run in the side.

 

[honestbharani]

All this talk of pace bowling prospects in Australia shows how bad India is in that regard. We would kill, absolutely kill to get bowlers like MJ and Siddle into our squad.

 

[benchmark00]

He'll always be a 'bob each way' squad bowler. Too good to play Shield cricket for the rest of his career but not good enough to stay in the Test side for a prolong stretch if he's not in form. The main benefit of a bloke that is that he'll always give his best and you know what you get so you can pick him as team balance/injuries dictate, good support to a genuine attack leader, good to have around the squad, etc. But, short of some fairly drastic changes in his MO, I doubt he'll ever get a prolonged run in the side.

Andy Bichel, if Andy Bichel was slightly more mediocre.

 

[Spikey]

"Peter Siddle kept running in hard all day"

cricinfo steals from cricketweb again

'I doubt he'll ever get a prolonged run in the side.'

aside from the run from his debut to now, of course.

 

[Top_Cat]

Andy Bichel, if Andy Bichel was slightly more mediocre.

haha, didn't want to say it but my mind went there too.

'I doubt he'll ever get a prolonged run in the side.'

aside from the run from his debut to now, of course.

Should have added 'from now'.

 

[stephen]

There is a lot to like about Siddle, but is he really one of the top 3 quick bowlers in Australia at the moment? I'm not sure, even if we take Bollinger out of the equation. To me Siddle seems like he'll never be more than an ok first change bowler.

Tenure is something to grant university professors, not athletes. If Australia is to get back to its ruthless best, we have to be ruthless in our selection policies. Johnson, Ponting and to a lesser extent Siddle are very much the problem in this side.

 

[benchmark00]

The only thing to like about Siddle is the football team he barracks for.

 

[Spikey]

Sids also loves AFL and is a North Melbourne man through and through, but has a soft spot for Carlton

 

[Ruckus]

He'll always be a 'bob each way' squad bowler. Too good to play Shield cricket for the rest of his career but not good enough to stay in the Test side for a prolong stretch if he's not in form. The main benefit of a bloke that is that he'll always give his best and you know what you get so you can pick him as team balance/injuries dictate, good support to a genuine attack leader, good to have around the squad, etc. But, short of some fairly drastic changes in his MO, I doubt he'll ever get a prolonged run in the side.

Yeah completely agree with that summary.

 

[social]

There is no point in batting Watto at 4 - his main problem is the failure to convert starts and that wont chnage by dropping him down a couple of slots

If you really want to give him tough love, drop him to 6 and explain to him that as he's only good for pretty 40s and 50s anyway, it wont cost him any runs but it could do the team a lot of good to find a top-order player that actually puts a price on their wicket

Anyway, IMO, the guys that need to be dropped in the very near future are very obvious

MJ - back to Shield cricket for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, his problems are largely mental so I dont think it will do him much good. As such, the only real option is to find a replacement.

Ponting - runs in the next innings or not, his time is almost up anyway

Hussey - see Ponting

Haddin - doesnt place any value on his wicket and we dont have the benefit of a long tail

Lyon - **** knows why we have placed so much faith in a bloody off-spinner when history shows that he will have to perform miracles to average under 35 in his home country.

For the first test against NZ, I'd pick

Hughes - no point in dropping him just as he has posted a couple of scores
Warner - looks the best young player to me
Marsh - dont think he's the long-term answer but at least he digs in
Ponting - farewell at Bellerive
Clarke
Watson
Wade
Hauritz or O'Keefe if unfit - both are far better all-round packages than Lyon (as is Smith btw)
Harris or Cutting/Starc/Pattinson if unfit - pick guys on form
Cummins
Copeland - has control and the ability to bowl long spells

 

[Spark]

6 would be horrible. There'd be a whole legion of spinners chomping at the bit to bowl to him as soon as he gets to the crease.

 

[social]

6 would be horrible. There'd be a whole legion of spinners chomping at the bit to bowl to him as soon as he gets to the crease.

There's a whole legion of bowlers lining up to bowl to him once he gets to 30 now.

Anyway, I dont accept that he's that bad against spin (he does have a hunderd in India)

Its simply all mental with him

 

[stephen]

Like it or not, Watto is one of the few players at the moment in the Australian team that get their choice of position. He wants to open, he opens. I'd rather see him at 3 or 4, but such is life.

 

[Spikey]

6 would be horrible. There'd be a whole legion of spinners chomping at the bit to bowl to him as soon as he gets to the crease.

Be the same at 4 tbh.






At opening really.

 

[Top_Cat]

There's a whole legion of bowlers lining up to bowl to him once he gets to 30 now.

Anyway, I dont accept that he's that bad against spin (he does have a hunderd in India)

Its simply all mental with him

Yeah but did you see it? Scored most of his runs against the pacers and stone-walled Ojha and Harbhajan on a ridiculously flat deck where they were basically bowling darts.

Watto starting against spin fills me with dread.

 

[Mister Wright]

Siddle should only play at the MCG.

 

[robelinda]

Siddle should only play at the MCG.

For the Vics.

 

[adub]

Yeah, dropping Lyon has absolutely nothing going for it at all. Australia's spin revolving door has been ridiculous enough since Warne's retirement without repeating the mistake of dropping Hauritz all over again. Lyon's done decently enough in his Test career and dropping him basically means taking a punt on someone else who averages between 45-50 with the ball at FC level (ok, O'Keefe doesn't fit in this bracket but he doesn't have an enormous sample size to work from.)

I will say I don't mind Lyon's work at all. BUT, his selection over O'Keefe was a massive crock of ****. To say O'Keefe's sample size is small is ridiculous when it's being compared to a guy who was selected on the back of 3 fc games and a 45 average. It's just utter, utter bull****. To say O'Keefe hasn't had a good start to this season is equal bull****. His record in the three games he's played this season smashes the three games Lyon was selected on, or Beer's record, or Doherty's. He just took a great 4-fer and backed it up with a run a ball 80 to almost win a game his side had blown. None, not one single one of O'Keefe's competition have ever produced a performance to compare. It's hardly the first time SOK has done it though. He took 4-fer despite being way underbowled and backed it up with a 66 in Aus A v England, a 4/87 and 91 against SA, 7/35 and 61 for Aus A against SL A. So he doesn't have many games under his belt, yet he's already turned in four performances of 4+ wickets and a 50 in the same match. Like I said absolutely no other potential spinner comes within a bulls roar of these performances. Added to that the fact his average and s/r is miles and miles in front of any other spinner. It's about time people stopped trying to come up with reasons for why SOK's figures are so much better than everyone else that don't involve the possibility that it's because he's the best spinner in the country.

The fact he did not get a go in the test team is indefensible. So the question we are forced to confront is are we forced to continue to with a mistake? Now like I said I think Lyon is doing ok. But is he our best spin option? Firstly I don't think you can put too much credit on his debut 5-fer. The pitch had a huge amount of say in that. It was no more an indication of a great future spin bowler than Clarke's 6/9. Since then he's been tidy, and you have to love his shape, but he's not THAT good that his position shouldn't be looked at. So as solid as Lyon has gone, I truly believe the test side would be noticeably strengthened by replacing him with O'Keefe. It would also be justice. Lyon, if he's as good as I reckon he could one day be will go back to the Shield and perform. If SOK doesn't then he can be in the box seat to take the spot back. But today and coming into this summer O'Keefe is our best option. It's a crime that he hasn't had at least 5 tests already under his belt (if not 10), but there's no reason to keep making the same mistake. Putting the guy who should have been selected three spinner's ago is not continuing the round about, it's fixing the problem that has created the round about in the first place.

 

[Spikey]

keep in mind when picking your team that Cutting never opens the bowling. not a problem if you're picking Copeland Cummins but if you're also trying fit siddle/mj in there....

 

[NUFAN]

Very good post Adub and to add to it..

How would you make it clear to him so that he just doesn't think its lip service.

I would say Lyon, thanks for giving it your all, you certainly didn't disgrace yourself, we are going to give O'Keefe a game, because he offers more as a batsman and a bowler at this stage of your respective careers; go back to South Australia and help their struggling attack.

Also, no hard feelings mate, here have SOK's T20 spot, good luck and Happy Birthday.