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Australia - where to from here
- Thread starter stephen
- Start date
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If Australia were serious about getting some confidence and stability in the side they would consider picking players who are scoring runs and taking wickets, which should be the basis for being selected anyway. Too long have the selectors picked players too early, gotten rid of players for one bad performance or neglected players that should have been selected.
I'm not going to name an XI, but name a group of players I think should be considered.
Openers: Hughes/Warner/Klinger.
Given Hughes' most recent innings he will get a stay of execution. I can't see him finishing the home series against India, but he might get lucky.
Middle Order: Clarke/Watson/Marsh/Hussey/Voges (Klinger wouldn't be out of place at 3 or 4)
Serious questions have to asked of Ponting's place in the side. He may be given two more tests against New Zealand, but one would have to think he'd need a big score in the 2nd innnings, perhaps a match winning one. With Watson's most recent injury the time has come to move him down the order to 4 or five. Marsh at 3 and Clarke at 4 or 5. Hussey's days are numbered. Hopefully someone like Chris Lyn can find some form and get his way in before the end of the summer. He could be a 100 test player and future captain.
Wicket Keeper: Haddin/Wade/Paine/Hartley This position is pretty much selected on batting ability these days. I personally think Hartley is the best keeper in the country, but his batting doesn't stack up against the other candidates, however wouldn't be out of place in the national side. He has guided QLD to some very good FC victories or match saves. Haddin will most likely go before the end of the summer unless he shows more consistency. Paine has been groomed, but Wade his making the right noises.
Pace Bowlers: Harris/Cutting/Copeland/Cummins Please, the time has come for Johnson to be GONE, Siddle is pedestrian and is not a strike bowler. Unfortunately Harris can't keep himself on the field, because when he does he is dangerous. Time has come for Cutting to be given an opportunity. Copeland showed enough in Sri Lanka and Cummins has been impressive.
Spinner: Hauritz/Lyon/Boyce
Hauritz shouldn't have been dropped and during the Ashes series was taking wickets and hitting hundreds for NSW. Should he return from injury and return good figures he should be back. Lyon has done ok and should hold the job until he no longer takes wickets or someone shines. Boyce probably isn't ready yet, and may be a bit harsh to select him against the Indians, but if he continues his development there is no reason why he shouldn't play for Australia in the next 12 months. I don't want to see Beer bowl on my tv this summer.
I'm not going to name an XI, but name a group of players I think should be considered.
Openers: Hughes/Warner/Klinger.
Given Hughes' most recent innings he will get a stay of execution. I can't see him finishing the home series against India, but he might get lucky.
Middle Order: Clarke/Watson/Marsh/Hussey/Voges (Klinger wouldn't be out of place at 3 or 4)
Serious questions have to asked of Ponting's place in the side. He may be given two more tests against New Zealand, but one would have to think he'd need a big score in the 2nd innnings, perhaps a match winning one. With Watson's most recent injury the time has come to move him down the order to 4 or five. Marsh at 3 and Clarke at 4 or 5. Hussey's days are numbered. Hopefully someone like Chris Lyn can find some form and get his way in before the end of the summer. He could be a 100 test player and future captain.
Wicket Keeper: Haddin/Wade/Paine/Hartley This position is pretty much selected on batting ability these days. I personally think Hartley is the best keeper in the country, but his batting doesn't stack up against the other candidates, however wouldn't be out of place in the national side. He has guided QLD to some very good FC victories or match saves. Haddin will most likely go before the end of the summer unless he shows more consistency. Paine has been groomed, but Wade his making the right noises.
Pace Bowlers: Harris/Cutting/Copeland/Cummins Please, the time has come for Johnson to be GONE, Siddle is pedestrian and is not a strike bowler. Unfortunately Harris can't keep himself on the field, because when he does he is dangerous. Time has come for Cutting to be given an opportunity. Copeland showed enough in Sri Lanka and Cummins has been impressive.
Spinner: Hauritz/Lyon/Boyce
Hauritz shouldn't have been dropped and during the Ashes series was taking wickets and hitting hundreds for NSW. Should he return from injury and return good figures he should be back. Lyon has done ok and should hold the job until he no longer takes wickets or someone shines. Boyce probably isn't ready yet, and may be a bit harsh to select him against the Indians, but if he continues his development there is no reason why he shouldn't play for Australia in the next 12 months. I don't want to see Beer bowl on my tv this summer.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Is part of the bowling chopping and changing being spoilt for choice? Australia doesn't seem to be wanting for, er, seam talent.
Peter George played a test a little over a year ago and now hardly warrants a mention; ditto Mark Cameron who looked fairly impressive in the Australia A game versus the all-conquering English tourists last year.
Then there's Starc, Pattinson, Cutting, McKay, Hilfenhaus...
Peter George played a test a little over a year ago and now hardly warrants a mention; ditto Mark Cameron who looked fairly impressive in the Australia A game versus the all-conquering English tourists last year.
Then there's Starc, Pattinson, Cutting, McKay, Hilfenhaus...
Furball
Evil Scotsman
I think the problem is that there's a lot of guys of a reasonably similar standard, and it doesn't help when the two players who have stepped up to Test level and really performed (Bollinger and Harris) have massive question marks over their fitness.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Cameron's injured again. Ongoing problem throughout his career. Hasn't played a match yet this season.
robelinda
International Vice-Captain
We've stuck with Johnson because of the miracle factor, and Siddle because he really isn't that bad, but both have to go. If cutting turns out to be horrible then so be it, Siddle isn't going to turn into a match winner all of a sudden, his game plan has been pretty much the same for ages. Cummins looks great, if he stays fit and keeps his pace or gets even quicker, then we are GUN. Copeland really could be the key bowler, I'm sure i wasn't the only one wishing he was bowling yesterday in SA.
morgieb
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My sentiments....
Watson HAS to stay. Maybe he shouldn't be a opener, but he's in the top 5 MVC's in the world, afaic.
Hughes deserves a proper go. He can bat good when in the mood, and he scores runs for fun at lower levels.
Marsh should stay. Looks to be a proper batsman.
Ponting has to go. Yes it may be tough to drop an ATG, but he's been very average since the Ashes 06/07.
Clarke obviously is staying, he's our captain and our best bat. Hussey should stay, but if he returns to his 2008-10 habits, then the knives should come out.
Haddin I'm unsure about. He hasn't been good recently, and Paine and Wade are breathing down his neck. Deserves another series, but if he ****s up against New Zealand, then drop him.
Johnson has to go, we can't afford 10 matches of dross for that match-winning spell, and Siddle should go to, he's never gonna be anything more than mediocre.
Harris has to stay whenever possible. And although I think Hauritz and O'Keefe are better, Lyon should stay, too. Cummins looks like he could be our best quick since McGrath, so preserve with him.
Warner looks like he's a good test bat (surprisingly!), and Khawaja deserves a proper go, he looks as if (unlike Hughes) he's a proper test bat, despite his lack of performances. The other bats are too old (Dussey, Rogers), too inconsistent (Ferguson, Finch, S Smith), not good enough (Cowan, Bailey, etc.) or too unfit (Cosgrove).
Bowling looks interesting. Obviously Copeland should be in the side. Bollinger should be there too, whenever possible. Cutting looks good. Butterworth looks good, too. Hilfy looks like he's back. George takes wickets. Even Coulter-Nile looks like he might be a high-level Shield player/low-level Test player. Then there's the young guns like Pattinson, Starc and Hazlewood. Quite why we're persisting with Johnson and Siddle then I have no idea.
Lineup for the Gabba, then...
Hughes
Watson (Warner)
Marsh (nfi...guess they'll have to stick with Ponting if Watson and Marsh aren't fit)
Khawaja
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin/Wade
Harris (Cutting)
Copeland
Cummins
Lyon/O'Keefe
Watson HAS to stay. Maybe he shouldn't be a opener, but he's in the top 5 MVC's in the world, afaic.
Hughes deserves a proper go. He can bat good when in the mood, and he scores runs for fun at lower levels.
Marsh should stay. Looks to be a proper batsman.
Ponting has to go. Yes it may be tough to drop an ATG, but he's been very average since the Ashes 06/07.
Clarke obviously is staying, he's our captain and our best bat. Hussey should stay, but if he returns to his 2008-10 habits, then the knives should come out.
Haddin I'm unsure about. He hasn't been good recently, and Paine and Wade are breathing down his neck. Deserves another series, but if he ****s up against New Zealand, then drop him.
Johnson has to go, we can't afford 10 matches of dross for that match-winning spell, and Siddle should go to, he's never gonna be anything more than mediocre.
Harris has to stay whenever possible. And although I think Hauritz and O'Keefe are better, Lyon should stay, too. Cummins looks like he could be our best quick since McGrath, so preserve with him.
Warner looks like he's a good test bat (surprisingly!), and Khawaja deserves a proper go, he looks as if (unlike Hughes) he's a proper test bat, despite his lack of performances. The other bats are too old (Dussey, Rogers), too inconsistent (Ferguson, Finch, S Smith), not good enough (Cowan, Bailey, etc.) or too unfit (Cosgrove).
Bowling looks interesting. Obviously Copeland should be in the side. Bollinger should be there too, whenever possible. Cutting looks good. Butterworth looks good, too. Hilfy looks like he's back. George takes wickets. Even Coulter-Nile looks like he might be a high-level Shield player/low-level Test player. Then there's the young guns like Pattinson, Starc and Hazlewood. Quite why we're persisting with Johnson and Siddle then I have no idea.
Lineup for the Gabba, then...
Hughes
Watson (Warner)
Marsh (nfi...guess they'll have to stick with Ponting if Watson and Marsh aren't fit)
Khawaja
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin/Wade
Harris (Cutting)
Copeland
Cummins
Lyon/O'Keefe
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Noble One
International Vice-Captain
Not exactly the type of batsman we need right now. Typical big score followed by numerous failures type. Promising cricketer though and may debut for the ODI team within the next 12 months.
howardj
International Coach
Hopefully the selectors will be emboldened by the Cummins punt (early days, but he really does look like he could be a 5-10 year player). It's not a matter of throwing someone in just because they are young, but rather identifying raw talent that has scope for improvement, an upside. To this end, if they dubut just Warner and Wade this Summer, I reckon the new panel will have already paid their way.
Top_Cat
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That's flattering him, tbh. Before the game at Bankstown, his highest FC score was 63.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
How would you make it clear to him so that he just doesn't think its lip service.
TumTum
Banned
George is erratic, don't see him as a big prospect. Same for Pattinson. McKay is the worst of the lot, don't understand why he ever made the Test side.
Agree with everyone that Johnson is done.
Siddle has been getting support here which I don't understand. He hasn't been pathetic but that's not the problem, it's that his bowling sucks. When he first came he was new and overwhelmed the opposition, but players have worked him out that he can't get the ball to move so they are not intimidated by him. They see him as more of a bowler who's great to play shots against.
We need build a young attack around Cummins and Hazlewood imo. One is a big fast bowler and the other a McGrath like bowler. But Copeland in the short term needs to get into the side, no question about this selection.
So 3 definite guys for the next Test should be Cummins (looks promising), Copeland (earned it) and Harris (better than Siddle and Mitch).
howardj
International Coach
Some food for thought Re Watson
He made the switch to the opening position in Jul 2009. For the first eight tests he succeeded remarkably at it with a batting average of 63. However during that period his bowling suffered and he managed only 11 wickets at an average of 30.
Following that period which is basically the last 16 matches, he has done extremely well as a bowler taking 31 wickets at an average of 23.9 but his batting has slipped; averaging just 36 in that time.
He made the switch to the opening position in Jul 2009. For the first eight tests he succeeded remarkably at it with a batting average of 63. However during that period his bowling suffered and he managed only 11 wickets at an average of 30.
Following that period which is basically the last 16 matches, he has done extremely well as a bowler taking 31 wickets at an average of 23.9 but his batting has slipped; averaging just 36 in that time.
Spikey
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it starts about a day after this match finishes. they decided to send beer home to play it and copeland will be 12th man. a poor decision, of course.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Give him A games, actually talk to him about it, keep him in the squad as the backup spinner. There are numerous ways of dropping a guy down a level in a way that isn't harsh. Noone likes to be dropped, but equally, if you do it right the pain can be lessened.
Spikey
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"The problem is they also bowl plenty that could be hit to the boundary by a proficient club batsman"
Ian Chappell explains the problem with Mitchell Johnson and Peter Siddle
i don't like the **** but he has a point
they also bowl plenty of **** that can be easily defended and left alone by school kids
Ian Chappell explains the problem with Mitchell Johnson and Peter Siddle
i don't like the **** but he has a point
they also bowl plenty of **** that can be easily defended and left alone by school kids
I don't get the talk of Hughes being on notice, he's clearly been picked as a long-term project, and in the last three tests he's made a couple of healthy scores. I know he always looks like **** at the crease, but as the op (and indeed the Argus report) outlined I think we need to be rewarding performance above all else, you never know what's going to happen in future, but for now Hughes is safe, dropping him would be completely illogical.
Likewise Hussey, I know he's old and the middle order has been fragile, but ffs, he did all he possibly could have during the Ashes and then in Sri Lanka. Now after 3 innings without a score he's on notice? If circumstances change and he goes through another lean trot then I'm all for pensioning him off, but right now he's clearly one of the best 6 batsmen in the country.
Ponting, Johnson and probably Haddin need to go, permanently. I'm pretty confident of none of them being there for Brisbane, particularly if Wade puts in a good showing in the Aus A game,
Siddle is a tricky one, I know he's hardly helped himself by being so bloody inconsistent, but I think he's been handled poorly. There were some promising signs from him throughout the Ashes, plenty of tripe but a couple of real standout performances, then he's out of the side on the basis a couple of poor spells against Zimababwe, then he's back in for the third test in SRL and bowling very well, now it looks like he's going to be dropped again despite not being nearly as poor as Johnson. I think they've got to stop messing him about, either you think he's got what it takes, in which case back him and give him a sustained spell in the side to establish himself, or alternatively send him back to Shield cricket for a season and give him some things to work on, stop having a bob each way.
Usman likewise has been messed about little thus far, give him a prolonged stretch in the side to try and establish himself.
Likewise Hussey, I know he's old and the middle order has been fragile, but ffs, he did all he possibly could have during the Ashes and then in Sri Lanka. Now after 3 innings without a score he's on notice? If circumstances change and he goes through another lean trot then I'm all for pensioning him off, but right now he's clearly one of the best 6 batsmen in the country.
Ponting, Johnson and probably Haddin need to go, permanently. I'm pretty confident of none of them being there for Brisbane, particularly if Wade puts in a good showing in the Aus A game,
Siddle is a tricky one, I know he's hardly helped himself by being so bloody inconsistent, but I think he's been handled poorly. There were some promising signs from him throughout the Ashes, plenty of tripe but a couple of real standout performances, then he's out of the side on the basis a couple of poor spells against Zimababwe, then he's back in for the third test in SRL and bowling very well, now it looks like he's going to be dropped again despite not being nearly as poor as Johnson. I think they've got to stop messing him about, either you think he's got what it takes, in which case back him and give him a sustained spell in the side to establish himself, or alternatively send him back to Shield cricket for a season and give him some things to work on, stop having a bob each way.
Usman likewise has been messed about little thus far, give him a prolonged stretch in the side to try and establish himself.