Australia - where to from here

[NUFAN]

Nice post Stephen. I do disagree with your thoughts on Siddle though, it's clear as mud that he's actually bowled better than Johnson on this tour and with Harris and Bollinger both having injury issues, Siddle appears to be a decent option.

SOK has a stronger chance of playing with Johnson potentially dumped as we really need to have a respectable number 8 - O'Keefe is more than that.

If I were part of the selection committee, I would be moving Watson immediately to the number 4 spot. I wouldn't keep Haddin either, he never catches anything leg-side cleanly and his batting has gone south.

I think he'd likely make runs back in Australia against New Zealand and India, but I have faith that Wade would too.

I'm sold on my top 7 with Warner next in line, most realistically for Khawaja, but perhaps for Marsh if he doesn't recover.

The bowling is tricky, but Johnson is out. If Harris was as fit as a Siddle, it would make things so much easier. The same applies to Bollinger. If neither are fit, I think it really does become a shoot out between the 4 quicks picked to play NZ in the A game and obviously Copeland too.


My team from here would be.

1. Phillip Hughes
2. Usman Khawaja
3. Shaun Marsh
4. Shane Watson
5. Michael Clarke
6. Michael Hussey
7. Matthew Wade
8. Stephen O'Keefe
9. Ryan Harris
10. Peter Siddle
11. Patrick Cummins


If Harris isn't fit, Bollinger is my next option. If he's not fit then it's Copeland. After that it's probably going to be Pattinson, a rejuvenated Hilfenhaus, Cutting or possibly Starc. Ben Cutting deserves the A call up, but he's benefited from the lively early season Gabba pitches for sure. I'm a fan of his, but I think he's still behind a fair few.

 

[Spikey]

Because from what Test cricket I've seen of Australia before and after that series it was the Ashes series that was the anomaly. Your bowling is nowhere near as bad as you think it is.

Spikey's Weekly Posting Of Siddle And MJ's Bowling Graphs:

HowSTAT! Player Bowling Graph

HowSTAT! Player Bowling Graph


So Siddle has one purple - uh red and blue - patch in SA and since then has got in the groove of a bag of wickets or **** all. MJ is a bit better. He only really got in that groove after the Pakistan in Aus tour. But he's still been in that groove for a long time.

Siddle and MJ get an awful lot of stick because most of the time since the 2009 Ashes, it's been left to the other seamer for Australia. Reaching it's peak in this match, where the 18yo with 3 FC games behind him is being forced to carry the attack. Now of course in that time Bollinger and Harris have actually done that job well....so maybe both of them should play instead of both of MJ and Siddle. We could have a damn good attack. We choose instead to not field a damn good attack.

 

[stephen]

The bowling changes have been over-rated. It's just been injury replacements mostly - Bollinger only got games because Hilf got injured. Harris got games because Siddle got injured. We played the classic trio of Hilf, Siddle and MJ at the first chance (2010-11 Ashes). It didn't work. Hilf got dropped for form. He's about the only one. Bollinger has a red x against his name for fitness reasons. Siddle got dropped for a game or two. And came straight back in. To say "What they've been doing is to change a bowler every time the batsmen fail." is vastly wrong........"What they did was blame everything, all of it, on Hauritz", is perhaps more correct.


Hilf is still lurking around the aus a squads despite no proof he's sorted out the '**** against right handers' thing ftr

The funny thing about it was that the dropping of Hauritz was when our bowling went from "inconsistent" to "utterly dire". Before that the attack felt like a decent attack that was going to have good days and bad but was capable of taking twenty wickets. The moment they dropped him, Siddle and Johnson stopped taking regular wickets. Hilf stopped taking any wickets. It was as though Hauritz was the glue that held the fragile attack together.

Hilf, Siddle and Johnson all need a domestic season under their belts before we reconsider picking them (except we should pick Johnson in a 4 man pace attack at the WACA).

 

[Spikey]

Bollinger did a hamstring ftr. Out for 14-21 days. Will be fit for uh the big bash.

 

[Howe_zat]

I should qualify that I don't want to write off Lyon, just that I'd have picked O'Keefe over him at first and that he hasn't really shown that to be wrong. It would be harsh to drop him now.

 

[Burgey]

Tim Nielsen and the team hierarchy must take the blame. The plans seemed to be the same as she we had Hayden, Langer, McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist despite having Hughes, Katich/ Watson, Johnson, Siddle or one of a cast of thousands - we are going out to dominate, even though we no longer have gun players.

Not prepared to graft. Get out there and blow sides away with our 11 popgun salute.

 

[Spikey]

On Lyon...he's in a tough position because I mean it's hard to take the debut seriously. Not his fault but Cameron White could have got wickets on that pitch. and since then he hasn't really got to bowl much. so it's neither 'bad performance' or 'good performance'. Can't drop him, hasn't sealed the spot.

imma leave for bed

 

[Furball]

Spikey's Weekly Posting Of Siddle And MJ's Bowling Graphs:

HowSTAT! Player Bowling Graph

HowSTAT! Player Bowling Graph


So Siddle has one purple - uh red and blue - patch in SA and since then has got in the groove of a bag of wickets or **** all. MJ is a bit better. He only really got in that groove after the Pakistan in Aus tour. But he's still been in that groove for a long time.

Siddle and MJ get an awful lot of stick because most of the time since the 2009 Ashes, it's been left to the other seamer for Australia. Reaching it's peak in this match, where the 18yo with 3 FC games behind him is being forced to carry the attack. Now of course in that time Bollinger and Harris have actually done that job well....so maybe both of them should play instead of both of MJ and Siddle. We could have a damn good attack. We choose instead to not field a damn good attack.

The biggest problem with your two alternatives is they have enormous question marks over their fitness. Harris can't seem to play more than 2 Tests in a row without breaking down with something (and then fling in the fact that one of his knees is shot and he's simply not a viable long term option), and Bollinger, for all that Cricket Australia have messed him around, rightly has a question mark over his Test future given his lack of fitness. At Adelaide he ran in quicker than he actually bowled.

 

[popepouri]

Australia is still going through an era of transition since their big names retired. It was easy to see this when most of their big players in the early naughties were the same age, hence they all retired around the same time and therefore it was impossible for them to keep that same level of play.

It's rare for a young guy to come in and completely dominate the international scene. How long did it take for Steyn, Amla, Kallis and AB to start having success? From what I see, Australia have too many of these players in transition and still trying to establish themselves as a starter.

Patience is required from the selectors and fans. There's currently too much panic at the moment.

 

[Furball]

Australia is still going through an era of transition since their big names retired. It was easy to see this when most of their big players in the early naughties were the same age, hence they all retired around the same time and therefore it was impossible for them to keep that same level of play.

It's rare for a young guy to come in and completely dominate the international scene. How long did it take for Steyn, Amla, Kallis and AB to start having success? From what I see, Australia have too many of these players in transition and still trying to establish themselves as a starter.

Patience is required from the selectors and fans. There's currently too much panic at the moment.

They're not in transition at all. They're about to be once they actually make the tough calls in the batting lineup but the bowling attack has been (largely) settled for years now, and when the likes of Bollinger and Harris have come into the attack they've done so as seasoned Shield veterans, not 18 year old greenhorns.

 

[howardj]

For Gabba

Warner
Hughes
Marsh
Watson
Clarke
Hussey
Wade
Cummins
Copeland
Harris
Lyon/SoK

 

[stephen]

I should qualify that I don't want to write off Lyon, just that I'd have picked O'Keefe over him at first and that he hasn't really shown that to be wrong. It would be harsh to drop him now.

Honestly, I don't really care if it's harsh or not. The guy has been poor since the bunsen tailor made for him at Galle. And I don't think that dropping a guy who is lucky to be there in the first place after he hasn't been setting the world on fire for three tests is not harsh. I think it's fair and proper. I for one do not think that getting him to actually learn his craft in the domestic competition is a bad thing or will harm his career.

You know what will harm his career? Playing a bunch of tests in a losing side and being a non-contributor. If your captain won't bowl you then you need to sort that out with your captain, either by dropping down and proving yourself or by making your case to the captain. We're just teaching him the losing team culture by keeping him there.

Siddle and MJ get an awful lot of stick because most of the time since the 2009 Ashes, it's been left to the other seamer for Australia. Reaching it's peak in this match, where the 18yo with 3 FC games behind him is being forced to carry the attack. Now of course in that time Bollinger and Harris have actually done that job well....so maybe both of them should play instead of both of MJ and Siddle. We could have a damn good attack. We choose instead to not field a damn good attack.

If Bollinger and Harris both were not prone to injury then I would agree with you. But both of them have recently been injured a lot. I don't think you can carry two fast bowling injury risks into a test match. Harris is the better of the two, ergo he stays. Bollinger could come in as injury cover.

I'd really like to see Copeland (who was unceremoniously dropped after performing quite well in a convincing series win) persisted with for a while and given at least a few tests to see if he's up to it. IMO we should use Cummins, Copeland, X, where X is any one bowler who is not Johnson or Siddle.

 

[stephen]

It makes me a little sad that nobody is even arguing my Ponting point.

 

[Uppercut]

Ponting's still playing? ****s sake Aussie selectors, put him out of his misery already. It's excruciating to watch.

 

[andyc]

The funny thing for me is, there's obviously a whole lot of pressure on Haddin. But really, I couldn't care less if he got the axe now or in Feb. There's the far bigger problems of Watson opening, Ponting at 4 and the make up off the attack (do they want the best one? do they want the most promising? do they want the most attacking? do they want the one filled with names we can make bad jokes and puns out of*). They can axe him now or then. I don't think it'll change anything. When was the last time Haddin batted in the first innings without the scorecard being in chaos? that's sort that out

(yes there was a couple of matches in SL where that happened. but you know what I mean)

The pressure on him is deserved, but I agree that he's the least of our worries when it comes to batting. The only reason I'd like him replaced now rather than at the end of the season is so Wade would definitely come into the team rather than the annointed successor in Paine.

With the NZ series the first one selected by the new selectors it'll be interesting to see what tact they take. You'd have to think that at the very lesat, Johnson and Ponting are gone. Or at least should be.

 

[ganeshran]

Johnson has not been good in this series (so havent the other bowlers), but on his day he is a genuine machwinner. Plus, his batting has been decent too.

Bowlers like him are generally inconsistent and tend to leak runs when they are having an off day, but more often than not they can run through sides - something that Siddle can never do.

 

[Sylvester]

South Africa v Australia, 2nd Test: Shane Watson in doubt for first Test against New Zealand | Cricket News | South Africa v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

That would complicate things a bit. Depending on what happens in the Aus A game Cutting and Warner really could push themselves into selection. Cutting seems to have something about him and he has picked up where he left off 2 years ago. He has the height, bowls with good pace and has one heck of a bouncer.

On Lyon, Clarke doesn't seem to have confidence in him for the right handers. Orthodox Off spinners always have a tough ride against them and from what I remember of Swann's stats he proves this. It's probably why the selectors tried so hard with Doherty and then Beer, however ignoring Smith's batting it was strange to have him in the side with the SLA. Now would be the time where you would want him to complement Lyon's bowling. Of course I'm not saying he should be there as he is far from ready but a leg spinning all rounder will be useful if we want to keep the offie.

Johnson definitely needs to go, him off a short run up did provide swing but his pace was in the low 130s and we have much better bowlers to do that. This surely was his last shot, the selectors were punting on him reproducing his 09 form but all we have seen is the normal Johnson.

 

[Furball]

Why on earth aren't Khawaja and Copeland playing in the A game?

 

[Sylvester]

The game is on the 24th so that would be pushing it asking Khawaja to play. No idea on Copeland given Warner is still in SA so it's nothing to do with 12th man duties. All Shield teams are playing so Copeland will get a bowl at long last.

 

[howardj]

Copes will be at his maximum effectiveness in Australia too

His one series to date was in a country which probably least suits his bowling

Even there he acquitted himself well