Fast bowlers' favorite fast bowlers

[r3alist]

Fast bowling - Allan Donald laments decline of fast bowlers | South Africa Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

"He rated the Pakistani pair of Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram as the best fast-bowling combination he's seen play. "Those two were the most skilful bowlers on any pitch around the world, especially in their own backyard. They reversed the ball beautifully. They had real pace through the air. These days you've got Shaun Tait, Dale Steyn and Brett Lee who are capable of doing that but those two were the most unbelievable. "

"Wasim was the most skilful of all bowlers. He was outstanding, whether he was reversing over or round the wicket you just never knew what was coming."

Thanks.

 

[Furball]

Talking about completeness of repertoire, I'd stick my neck ahead and say that Zaheer Khan and Anderson are the two most complete bowlers in the world today. Reverse swinging the old ball both ways and with such consistency is something that not many people before these two managed successfully. It's an awe-inspiring art, IMHO. Steyn is pretty much breathing down their necks and as an overall package, he is certainly better.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.

 

[Furball]

He is an improved player slightly above average who had thrived in helpful home conditions over the past few years, and against India and pak who were both minnow standard for one reason or another, a lot of his fans dont have the honesty to accept that, he is not the same ballpark as steyn, who had years of awesomeness behind him, Anderson just a few above average really.

Read it here first folks, batsmen such as Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Sehwag are minnow standard apparently.

Funnily enough, Steyn's rampaging success against the same Indian lineup doesn't seem to be treated as "minnow bashing." Now why would that be?

 

[Ikki]

Lillee and Wasim were both bowler's bowlers. Lillee really signified aggression and skill, and he pioneered, or at least perfected, many of the techniques which he then passed on to guys like Marshall (eg leg cutter) and to the generation afterwards - so its obvious why so many bowlers look up to him. Wasim was simply a talent freak - the bowlers would look at him and simply ask 'how in the world does he do that?' He simply could do so much with the ball that other people couldn't, so bowlers obviously looked up to him.

There might have been "better" bowlers (arguable of course) but there are certain qualities that players (and fans) admire more than others.

Yeah, great post.

I've seen Wasim trying to explain the dynamics of swing and he talks about it as if it is easy/straightforward. In that sense, he was a freak and other bowlers were clearly in awe of what he the way he moved the ball - and the amount - and to do it so consistently/regularly.

 

[Jacknife]

Read it here first folks, batsmen such as Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Sehwag are minnow standard apparently.

Funnily enough, Steyn's rampaging success against the same Indian lineup doesn't seem to be treated as "minnow bashing." Now why would that be?

 

[NasserFan207]

Are you seriously £&@"!?£ kidding me?

LOL

you must live in a parallel universe where another James Anderson is a gun bowler, Anderson is not fit to wipe steyns boots, period.

From what I recall Steyn himself rates Anderson as his equal.

Not that I agree but Anderson is certainly very talented.

 

[r3alist]

Read it here first folks, batsmen such as Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Sehwag are minnow standard apparently.

Funnily enough, Steyn's rampaging success against the same Indian lineup doesn't seem to be treated as "minnow bashing." Now why would that be?

So I think we have discussed this before, therefore let's no go over old ground, but atleast let me point out your nonsense?

The India steyn bowled to was far stronger, fitter and on less friendly pitches/conditions.

Take the exact opposite for Anderson, he had it far far easier, not a like for like comparison.

Most people understand this as pretty standard, or so I thought, but denial is for free, so eat your heart out!!

 

[Furball]

So I think we have discussed this before, therefore let's no go over old ground, but atleast let me point out your nonsense?

The India steyn bowled to was far stronger, fitter and on less friendly pitches/conditions.

Take the exact opposite for Anderson, he had it far far easier, not a like for like comparison.

Most people understand this as pretty standard, or so I thought, but denial is for free, so eat your heart out!!

If you're claiming the pitches India encountered in England were far more bowler-friendly than the ones in South Africa then you're utterly deluded.

 

[Jacknife]

If you're claiming the pitches India encountered in England were far more bowler-friendly than the ones in South Africa then you're utterly deluded.

Come on mate we all know Jimmy play's on a different pitch to everyone else.LoL

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Read it here first folks, batsmen such as Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Sehwag are minnow standard apparently.

Funnily enough, Steyn's rampaging success against the same Indian lineup doesn't seem to be treated as "minnow bashing." Now why would that be?

Come on mate we all know Jimmy play's on a different pitch to everyone else.LoL

I think it's safe to conclude that there's an agenda driving the arguments here. Not arguments leading to an honest inference, as it ought to be.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

So I think we have discussed this before, therefore let's no go over old ground, but atleast let me point out your nonsense?

The India steyn bowled to was far stronger, fitter and on less friendly pitches/conditions.
Take the exact opposite for Anderson, he had it far far easier, not a like for like comparison.

Most people understand this as pretty standard, or so I thought, but denial is for free, so eat your heart out!!

Everything that you've said on this issue is untrue. Including the part in bold.

A fitter, stronger opposition is a relative definition and I'd like to believe that the quality of attack they face has a slight role to play in that. A batting line up with the full services of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman and Sehwag and Gambhir, in part, is not a weak lineup on any condition.

The fact that they were collectively exposed is full credit to the English attack. Sharma and Sreesanth were disappearing to all corners on the same "bowler-friendly" pitches.


As for decimating minnows in seaming conditions, how does one explain Anderson scything through Australia in bright, hot sunshine? Adelaide and Syndey are not exactly a seamer's paradise, are they?

 

[Cevno]

but for the match fixing whispers akram would be my most favorite bowler of all time (now it is marshall and warne). i still am a huge fan of his, albiet with a bit of disappointment. still, no wonder so many of his contemporaries admire his talent and what he chose to do it most of the time. lillee, as explained by SS, is the ultimate fast bowler's fast bowler for being an inspiration to the next two generations of speedsters with his work ethic and aggression and intelligence.

Does not compute.

John the Bookmaker to C'.

 

[akilana]

He is an improved player slightly above average who had thrived in helpful home conditions over the past few years, and against India and pak who were both minnow standard for one reason or another, a lot of his fans dont have the honesty to accept that, he is not the same ballpark as steyn, who had years of awesomeness behind him, Anderson just a few above average really.

I won't say below average but agree with you about him thriving in helpful conditions. Has a lot of work to do away from home for a good period of time..

 

[Cevno]

So I think we have discussed this before, therefore let's no go over old ground, but atleast let me point out your nonsense?

The India steyn bowled to was far stronger, fitter and on less friendly pitches/conditions.

Take the exact opposite for Anderson, he had it far far easier, not a like for like comparison.

Most people understand this as pretty standard, or so I thought, but denial is for free, so eat your heart out!!

I agree that Steyn is better than Anderson consistently, but that argument you are making is rubbish.

 

[Cevno]

Same way people rank Wasim ahead of McGrath. Anderson has far more in his locker than Steyn does, but Steyn uses what he has better.

Wasim and Mcgrath were quite different type of bowlers.

Steyn and Anderson are a lot similar than them. Also not sure what Anderson has in his locker that Steyn doesn't(let alone far more)?

 

[r3alist]

Everything that you've said on this issue is untrue. Including the part in bold.

A fitter, stronger opposition is a relative definition and I'd like to believe that the quality of attack they face has a slight role to play in that. A batting line up with the full services of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman and Sehwag and Gambhir, in part, is not a weak lineup on any condition.

The fact that they were collectively exposed is full credit to the English attack. Sharma and Sreesanth were disappearing to all corners on the same "bowler-friendly" pitches.


As for decimating minnows in seaming conditions, how does one explain Anderson scything through Australia is bright, hot sunshine? Adelaide and Syndey are not exactly a seamer's paradise, are they?

Um was Sehwag not totally unprepared and coming back from injury?

Did gambhir not have an injury problem throughout?

Did tendulkar not have injury problems?

So who are you left with? Dravid and laxman, both old and well past their best, dravid surprised everyone.

It's not like for like and you are basically creating a mythology.

Btw, running through a team that was 21/9 the other day isn't really something to sing and dance about, I mean it's ok, but nothing remotely special, steyn has been performing to that level more or less his whole career.

 

[Furball]

Um was Sehwag not totally unprepared and coming back from injury?

Did gambhir not have an injury problem throughout?

Did tendulkar not have injury problems?

So who are you left with? Dravid and laxman, both old and well past their best, dravid surprised everyone.

It's not like for like and you are basically creating a mythology.

Btw, running through a team that was 21/9 the other day isn't really something to sing and dance about, I mean it's ok, but nothing remotely special, steyn has been performing to that level more or less his whole career.

No.

 

[hang on]

If you're claiming the pitches India encountered in England were far more bowler-friendly than the ones in South Africa then you're utterly deluded.

partially out of context, but your point - a valid one - from another thread could point to why steyn might have been bowling to a better or stronger lineup

I don't think it has anything to do with not being bothered. I think you underestimate just how much all the preperation, planning and winning in the Ashes series would have taken out of the players mentally. Ditto with the Indian team and the World Cup. The appropriate thing for both sides to do would have been to rest and recouperate, not play more cricket that the players simply weren't mentally equipped for. Granted, the IPL is much more meaningless than the World Cup but it's quite clear that India's efforts to win the World Cup at home took a huge toll on the players when you look at both the injury list and the form of the players in the Test series that followed. It's no coincidence that Dravid was India's best man over the two series that followed, because he'd had plenty of down time due to not being involved in the ODI setup.

 

[Furball]

partially out of context, but your point - a valid one - from another thread could point to why steyn might have been bowling to a better or stronger lineup

I'm not denying that the Indian lineup had fitness and form issues coming into the series but that doesn't make them minnow standard all of a sudden.

 

[hang on]

I'm not denying that the Indian lineup had fitness and form issues coming into the series but that doesn't make them minnow standard all of a sudden.

not, for a moment, am i suggesting that. but that realist could have a point that steyn was bowling to a better lineup. thought that was the crux of the argument.