*Official* West Indies in India

[honestbharani]

The one thing that is extremely pleasing about England's dominance is how much planning and hardwork they have put into this. Australia dominated because the players improved themselves in a coaching environment that allowed them to do that. But I don't think even they did the sort of planning that the England coaching staff have done.


But even more pleasing is the fact that the team that is currently #1 is tests is actually one that WANTS to be there and gives due importance to that format... It is obvious tests matter to them so much and that is why they are where they are. It is apparently the exact opposite with them in ODIs, though that might change now. The 5-0 in India could well be the 2007 Ashes for them in terms of ODIs... At least, the interviews of Andy Flower gives me that impression.

 

[Daemon]

Stop encouraging them

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Being honest I only see SA and an Indian away tour as sides who could beat us at present if we play anything like. Pakistan in UAE is potentially tricky as they are the Jeckyll and Hyde team and have the talent to upset anyone on their day.

India have done the right thing after their beating by England by picking new bowlers, maybe could have done more by blooding Kohli or AN Other instead of Yuvraj. Aussies looked ike they had done right thing too but lapsed back by going with Siddle and Johnson again.

Such a shame WI aren't playing their strongest side for internal reasons.

 

[centurymaker]

The one thing that is extremely pleasing about England's dominance is how much planning and hardwork they have put into this. Australia dominated because the players improved themselves in a coaching environment that allowed them to do that. But I don't think even they did the sort of planning that the England coaching staff have done.

THIS!!!!

Planning and preparation has been integral to their recent success. They have basically dismantled opposition line-ups with their extraordinary planning...and then obviously great execution. If they hadn't had their back-room staff the last two years, they wouldn't have reached the top spot. They might not have won the ashes series either.

I can vaguely recall reading about how they had more back room staff than the players themselves...something like that.
significantly more laptops than any other team..

 

[Howe_zat]

The 5-0 in India could well be the 2007 Ashes for them in terms of ODIs... At least, the interviews of Andy Flower gives me that impression.

Absolute rubbish. That would only be vaguely true if 1) ODI series whitewashes were generally as rare/bad as Test series whitewashes, 2) the team put as much planning, effort and resources into an ODI series like that as an Ashes series, and 3) the public and media reaction cared as much about it.

Comparing that ODI series to any Test series, let alone the Ashes, is nonesensical. There's no way it got even 1% of the attention, so how can it have a similar impact?

The ODI series last month objectively wasn't even as important as the ODI series here, given how many players from both sides missed it.

The only way I can see the ODI team being shaken up like in 2007 would be if we went into the 2015 world cup as among the favourites and went on to fail miserably.

 

[Shri]

The one thing that is extremely pleasing about England's dominance is how much planning and hardwork they have put into this. Australia dominated because the players improved themselves in a coaching environment that allowed them to do that. But I don't think even they did the sort of planning that the England coaching staff have done.


But even more pleasing is the fact that the team that is currently #1 is tests is actually one that WANTS to be there and gives due importance to that format... It is obvious tests matter to them so much and that is why they are where they are. It is apparently the exact opposite with them in ODIs, though that might change now. The 5-0 in India could well be the 2007 Ashes for them in terms of ODIs... At least, the interviews of Andy Flower gives me that impression.

Did you just seriously compare an odi series to a test series?

 

[honestbharani]

Absolute rubbish. That would only be vaguely true if 1) ODI series whitewashes were generally as rare/bad as Test series whitewashes, 2) the team put as much planning, effort and resources into an ODI series like that as an Ashes series, and 3) the public and media reaction cared as much about it.

Comparing that ODI series to any Test series, let alone the Ashes, is nonesensical. There's no way it got even 1% of the attention, so how can it have a similar impact?

The ODI series last month objectively wasn't even as important as the ODI series here, given how many players from both sides missed it.

The only way I can see the ODI team being shaken up like in 2007 would be if we went into the 2015 world cup as among the favourites and went on to fail miserably.

Did you just seriously compare an odi series to a test series?

See, I am not comparing them in terms of importance. But I get the feeling that the coach, and the players to an extent, have taken this hard... They will not want this performance to be repeated and this might lead them to plan their ODI cricket better and help them improve as a team... Not just for the WC, but as an ODI team overall... I think Ashes 2007 forced them to think in this manner, and inspite of the Moores/Pieterson debacle, their vision and planning was on the right track and that just gained momentum once Flower and Strauss came to the helm.


THAT is my comparison, not in terms of importance or how the series went or anything.. Just the effect it might have on their long term planning towards that particular format of the game.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I agree that Flower sees it as important, not too sure the players are singing from the same hymn sheet at present though.

 

[honestbharani]

well, if they don't, he might well get in those who do and replace them.



But seriously, I think the players will buy into his vision and ideas.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I think they may given time. The thing is like the test side it won't happen overnight, the likes of Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes, Hales and Taylor need to be given a chance as they would probably do better than some players currently in the side and might prioritise it more than some of the test players as it may lead to chances in that team further down the line.

 

[keeper]

See, I am not comparing them in terms of importance. But I get the feeling that the coach, and the players to an extent, have taken this hard... They will not want this performance to be repeated and this might lead them to plan their ODI cricket better and help them improve as a team... Not just for the WC, but as an ODI team overall... I think Ashes 2007 forced them to think in this manner, and inspite of the Moores/Pieterson debacle, their vision and planning was on the right track and that just gained momentum once Flower and Strauss came to the helm.


THAT is my comparison, not in terms of importance or how the series went or anything.. Just the effect it might have on their long term planning towards that particular format of the game.

I understand why you're asking the question. Flower is a proud and stubborn bugger and if he's had enough of poor one day performances it may trigger a reaction. Very hard to know what he's thinking though.

Great opportunity to invest in youth here, one that doesn't come around very often.

 

[honestbharani]

I think they may given time. The thing is like the test side it won't happen overnight, the likes of Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes, Hales and Taylor need to be given a chance as they would probably do better than some players currently in the side and might prioritise it more than some of the test players as it may lead to chances in that team further down the line.

yes and the success is not guaranteed either. I suppose the guys coming through the county system seem better prepared for the longer format than the OD version. So I am not saying they will definitely be #1 in 4 years time, but I just think a bit of a cathartic process may just be put in place just like straight after the 2007 Ashes.

 

[Cevno]

Such a shame WI aren't playing their strongest side for internal reasons.

Just Gayle is missing, tbf.

Pretty much their strongest lineup(or atleast what they think it is) except him.

 

[Prince EWS]

Just Gayle is missing, tbf.

Pretty much their strongest lineup(or atleast what they think it is) except him.

Nash made his unavailable for this series too; not that I think he would've been picked. And of course Taylor and Bravo are still injured; not that I'm sure they'd have been picked either.

 

[Cevno]

The one thing that is extremely pleasing about England's dominance is how much planning and hardwork they have put into this. Australia dominated because the players improved themselves in a coaching environment that allowed them to do that. But I don't think even they did the sort of planning that the England coaching staff have done.


But even more pleasing is the fact that the team that is currently #1 is tests is actually one that WANTS to be there and gives due importance to that format... It is obvious tests matter to them so much and that is why they are where they are. It is apparently the exact opposite with them in ODIs, though that might change now. The 5-0 in India could well be the 2007 Ashes for them in terms of ODIs... At least, the interviews of Andy Flower gives me that impression.

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but it is not like other teams don't care about tests. They just have to give more importance to other formats. Similar to England and ODI's and them so called not caring about them.

I am sure atleast 95% Indian fans(Probably even more) would rather have wanted to win the World Cup over any test series or even the number # 1 ranking after 2 years(maybe a lesser % for the Ranking). So the team delivered on those accounts, and that is why the reaction to getting whitewashed in England hasn't been all that great.

 

[Cevno]

Nash made his unavailable for this series too; not that I think he would've been picked. And of course Taylor and Bravo are still injured; not that I'm sure they'd have been picked either.

Don't think anyone of them would have been picked tbh. Maybe Taylor would make it, but he is as(if not more) injury prone as Zaheer.

 

[honestbharani]

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but it is not like other teams don't care about tests. They just have to give more importance to other formats. Similar to England and ODI's and them so called not caring about them.

I am sure atleast 95% Indian fans(Probably even more) would rather have wanted to win the World Cup over any test series or even the number # 1 ranking after 2 years(maybe a lesser % for the Ranking). So the team delivered on those accounts, and that is why the reaction to getting whitewashed in England hasn't been all that great.

Nah.. you got the emphasis at the wrong word. What I meant by the word WANTS there is that they plan so much ahead because they want it so much. Our board is more concerned about us being the richest body and making more money than letting our team and our cricketers be the best they can be.. That is why it is so heartening to see them than us lead the rankings at this moment.



IF the BCCI and all the stakeholders here get their act together, then fine. But right now, BCCI sees cricket and cricketers as a way to make money and little else.

 

[morgieb]

Nash made his unavailable for this series too; not that I think he would've been picked. And of course Taylor and Bravo are still injured; not that I'm sure they'd have been picked either.

Sarwan?

I think they would pick Bravo. Probably not Taylor though due to the form of Rampaul and Edwards, however.

 

[Cevno]

Nah.. you got the emphasis at the wrong word. What I meant by the word WANTS there is that they plan so much ahead because they want it so much. Our board is more concerned about us being the richest body and making more money than letting our team and our cricketers be the best they can be.. That is why it is so heartening to see them than us lead the rankings at this moment.



IF the BCCI and all the stakeholders here get their act together, then fine. But right now, BCCI sees cricket and cricketers as a way to make money and little else.

Have no idea what you mean tbh, wrt to International Cricket and you singled out more specifically Tests.Can see it turning into another IPL debate though.

Btw, I agree on the planning for tests aspect and it has lacked in many respects for a while now(Especially compared to England's planning), but the team planned very well for the World Cup and put a lot of effort into it, which may be part of the reason for bit of a dip after it.

 

[Cevno]

Sarwan?

I think they would pick Bravo. Probably not Taylor though due to the form of Rampaul and Edwards, however.

Has been dropped since the Indian tour to West Indies, due to woeful form.

Don't think they would be picking Bravo for tests either.