BlazeDragon
Banned
All that says is that he has is massively underrated. He had to get a double ton against the most popular team to finally get attention.
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Kallis Vs Dravid
- Thread starter centurymaker
- Start date
robelinda
International Vice-Captain
So you think every test ever played is SA was a green top and helped the bowlers? I don't see how that stat even remotely proves that. Each test pitch is different.
akilana
International 12th Man
Where? south africans don't go on youtube and forums and big up their players like many others from other countries do and they don't have an Ian chappel or Gavaskar
BlazeDragon
Banned
No I think players do well in their home conditions weather its green tops or flat tracks. But trying to give the idea that Kallis wasn't a good green top player is just ridiculous.
BlazeDragon
Banned
If Kallis was a India/Pakistan or Australia/England player he won't be so under-appreciated. I have seen players who aren't even players who aren't in the same level as Kallis from those countries get more appreciation.
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BlazeDragon
Banned
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akilana
International 12th Man
add Donald, Pollock, Kirsten etc.. Kirsten is one of the best openers in the 90s.. hardly spoken about. You'll see more people talking about Langer, Anwar, Trescothick etc
If Kallis was a India/Pakistan or Australia/England player he won't be so under-appreciated. I a have seen players who aren't even players who aren't in the same level as Kallis get more appreciation.
We had a thread here about best test innings and hardly an innings by SAfricans was mentioned.
BlazeDragon
Banned
Why are you trying to move in circles? Those stats I gave shows that batsmen in general found it very hard to bat in SA even non-weak teams which would suggest that they are bowler based pitches ('green tops") and Kallis scored those runs on the same pitches. This should pretty much settle it.
Top_Cat
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Even then, the whole criteria of what constitutes a 'green-top' is fairly fluid. Many players survive a pitch which is doing heaps early then make hay when it flattens out so everyone assumes it was a flat deck. Pretty routine in Brisbane before the last few years.
It's definitely not a homogenous thing. Very few tons are scored on pitches which remain nasty to bat on for days. It shouldn't be a knock against any player when it comes up so rarely and, conversely, why knocks like those scored by Kim Hughes in '81 are rated so highly.
It's definitely not a homogenous thing. Very few tons are scored on pitches which remain nasty to bat on for days. It shouldn't be a knock against any player when it comes up so rarely and, conversely, why knocks like those scored by Kim Hughes in '81 are rated so highly.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
And Kallis has a clearly better Home record than away record, while Dravid has a better away record than home record. Go figure.
Some of the wickets in SA, especially when they face certain teams tend to be bowlers favoring and particularly fast bowler favoring, but it isn't a massive difference as is made out and there are fair share of flattish wickets too like any other country. In India the same is true with some wickets turning and cracking earlier than others and getting up and down to favor certain bowlers.
Also, it is not as if Kallis has made all his home runs on green tops or Dravid has made all of them on low scoring cracking and turning pitches either or any proof that they have done exceptionally well on those. There might be a difference either way (in terms of average toughness of batting) but weighing in away records as well in differing conditions, not sure how much of a overall difference even that kind of consideration can make. Not a real massive one by any stretch of the imagination.
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vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
In the 2005/06 Boxing Day Test vs South Africa, when the start of the game was delayed after the curator overwatered the pitch the night before. Tony Ware (if I remember his name correctly) was putting a last bit of water on the pitch, got a phone call while he was doing it and lost track of time and put too much water into it. Didn't keep his job much longer, don't think.
On Kallis, I remember in the next Test in Sydney that the ball was going all over the shop early on, remember AB De Villiers and Graeme Smith having a mare early doors. Kallis got a ton after Smith and Gibbs took some of the heat out of the wicket, but it was still doing a bit from memory. In the end Australia chased down the target easily as it was really only a third day wicket when they batted on it, and Kallis scored very slowly as SA were seeking a declaration, Gibbs showed some frustration after he got run out with Kallis and Gibbs was the one smoting them.
BlazeDragon
Banned
Of course I'm not denying that neither am I saying that Kallis should be given extra credit for batting on green pitches or anything like that. But this attempt to pass him off as a mediocre batsman on bowler friendly pitches is quite annoying.
robelinda
International Vice-Captain
Its annoying for me too, not quite sure when Kallis got this label as a great player on green pitches.....cant say I've heard it before. Great player, yes. His technique is rock solid, better than Ponting, Lara, not quite as good as Sachin, but he has lazy footwork in the style of Laxman when its seaming, not coming forward enough.
akilana
International 12th Man
Not everyone does that.. it's just some people who can't stand Kallis because he's so successful.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
wrong