Kallis Vs Dravid

[BlazeDragon]

Jesus, you again misunderstand. How many of those innings were on green tops? Why are you finding it hard to fathom that I'm not arguing that he hasn't done well in SA, just the green top myth ONLY......that really isn't hard to understand. At NO point have i said to list the good innings that weren't again the great aussie side. This discussion is going nowhere because you are putting words in my mouth and avoiding the EXACT questions I'm asking.

And like I have said before that he has done well pretty much everywhere in SA. Which of his good innings are you suggesting weren't on bowler based pitches? Its about time you made a list.

 

[marc71178]

And like I have said before that he has done well pretty much everywhere in SA. Which of his good innings are you suggesting weren't on bowler based pitches? Its about time you made a list.

So much fail.

If, as you keep claiming, he's played so many great innings on green tops, how come you can't name them?

 

[BlazeDragon]

So much fail.

If, as you keep claiming, he's played so many great innings on green tops, how come you can't name them?

2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Durban, Mar 24-28, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

5th Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Jan 21-25, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

3rd Test: South Africa v India at Cape Town, Jan 2-6, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

1st Test: South Africa v Pakistan at Durban, Dec 26-29, 2002 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Reading helps.

 

[robelinda]

The first one wasn't a green top by any means, flat flat flat. Durban can be tough, but can also be a road. The fourth one was certainly not flat, dunno about a green top, some very average bowling though (plus it was Pakistan). The 3rd one wasn't a green top, just usual day 1 movement, SA got themselves into a hole and Kallis played a good knock for sure, but not a masterful green top knock. The 2nd one is a decent example, but only 1 out of 16 years? Hardly constitutes mastery of green tops. You claim to have watched all his innings too, I'm not trying to be an ass, but until just recently no-one could name many great Kallis innings from the previous 15 years, he was well below on the great batsmen of his era, but now that Lara has retired and Potning out of form Kallis has risen up based on his 2 innings vs India, and we know how badly they bowled this whole year.

 

[akilana]

1st Test: South Africa v Pakistan at Durban, Dec 26-29, 2002 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: South Africa v England at Cape Town, Jan 2-6, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
5th Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Jan 21-25, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: South Africa v Pakistan at Port Elizabeth, Jan 19-22, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: South Africa v New Zealand at Centurion, Nov 16-18, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
1st Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Dec 16-20, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: South Africa v England at Cape Town, Jan 3-7, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: South Africa v England at Durban, Dec 26-30, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[robelinda]

Not all of those were green tops by any means, a lot of those hundreds were fine innings in tough situations for his teams. Cant rate the NZ one, the bowling was truly awful. So that leaves 2 against Pakistan to dissect and 5 against England.....I have some footage to go and watch....I know one of those against Pakistan was a decent effort (the 91? Only faced one good bowler though, Asif), the england tons were all pretty good knocks, but I'm not sure which ones were green tops, i will go and watch them and report back....

 

[akilana]

I would put forward that Kallis has looked all at sea on most occasions when the pitch has been green in SA, and when faced with similar conditions in England he has looked terrible.

nah nah.. it's like Ponting's failure in India but he did okay in SL. England was probably his boogey team

 

[Spark]

BlazeDragon deadset if you continue to wilfully and consistently misconstrue completely obvious posts as a means of attacking the other poster I'll personally hit you with a long, long, long forum atmosphere ban.

 

[Howe_zat]

Someone to get me up to speed on why we're looking for Kallis tons on South African greentops.

As long as I've been watching cricket, the Test greentop has been a major rarity in any country.

 

[robelinda]

Tell ya what, i'll upload the first 20 or so runs that Kallis made in all those innings listed above, everyone can judge for themselves the pitch conditions etc....

 

[akilana]

while you are at it, do one for Ponting's mastery over spin bowling.

 

[Spark]

nah nah.. it's like Ponting's failure in India but he did okay in SL. England was probably his boogey team

while you are at it, do one for Ponting's mastery over spin bowling.

Explain to me how on earth Ponting against spin is relevant in this discussion and you might get out of a baiting warning.

Yes, in case you haven't noticed, I'm in a bad mood today.

 

[robelinda]

while you are at it, do one for Ponting's mastery over spin bowling.

you mean like this

HARBHAJAN SINGH vs RICKY PONTING - India fail. - YouTube

 

[BlazeDragon]

The first one wasn't a green top by any means, flat flat flat. Durban can be tough, but can also be a road. The fourth one was certainly not flat, dunno about a green top, some very average bowling though (plus it was Pakistan). The 3rd one wasn't a green top, just usual day 1 movement, SA got themselves into a hole and Kallis played a good knock for sure, but not a masterful green top knock. The 2nd one is a decent example, but only 1 out of 16 years? Hardly constitutes mastery of green tops. You claim to have watched all his innings too, I'm not trying to be an ass, but until just recently no-one could name many great Kallis innings from the previous 15 years, he was well below on the great batsmen of his era, but now that Lara has retired and Potning out of form Kallis has risen up based on his 2 innings vs India, and we know how badly they bowled this whole year.

Nice set of words you got there but I prefer actual statistics
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

SA pitches are nothing less than bowler friendly.

 

[Top_Cat]

Over-rated, blow-hard SA bats bring the ground averages down, tbh.

 

[BlazeDragon]

BlazeDragon deadset if you continue to wilfully and consistently misconstrue completely obvious posts as a means of attacking the other poster I'll personally hit you with a long, long, long forum atmosphere ban.

I haven't made any personal attacks in this thread so far. If I did so did a lot of people. And honestly ban me if it makes you feel good I couldn't really give less of a **** its just an internet forum page.

 

[robelinda]

Nice set of words you got there but I prefer actual statistics
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

SA pitches are nothing less than bowler friendly.

I know you are smart enough to not read EVERYTHING into one set of stats, so why do you bother? That stat tell you almost nothing about each individual test, the quality of the bowling, the quality of the batting, the standard of each test pitch, weather conditions etc, important stuff.....

 

[centurymaker]

until just recently no-one could name many great Kallis innings from the previous 15 years, he was well below on the great batsmen of his era, but now that Lara has retired and Potning out of form Kallis has risen up based on his 2 innings vs India, and we know how badly they bowled this whole year.

THIS.

THIS

His stock only went up just recently!!!
Before 2009/2010, he'd never been considered to be as good as dravid, ponting..
They have been regarded as greats since the mid 00's.
is it the same for kallis? I don't think so....

 

[BlazeDragon]

I know you are smart enough to not read EVERYTHING into one set of stats, so why do you bother? That stat tell you almost nothing about each individual test, the quality of the bowling, the quality of the batting, the standard of each test pitch, weather conditions etc, important stuff.....

That's the only thing that's really important there. I will take Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, WI, and NZ out if you are still not satisfied.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

That's the record with only top level teams. Honestly I just don't see what more you could possibly want to determine the are bowler based conditions.

 

[akilana]

Explain to me how on earth Ponting against spin is relevant in this discussion and you might get out of a baiting warning.

Yes, in case you haven't noticed, I'm in a bad mood today.

tongue cheek etc