Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[Stapel]

Spot fixing at cricket. I'm sure there are victims of real crime who'd feel pretty hollow seeing these kids go to jail, if UK is anything like Australia theres some pretty sideways stuff that ruins lives and goes unpunished. Cricket betting scandals pretty low on the list for mine. Before you go crazy, I'm all for it - just seems out of wack (though not up to date on UK justice system ftr)

Not sure about UK criminal law, but in Dutch criminal law, sentences are not only based on the type of crime, but also on the impact on society. In other words, a relatively minor crime that gets nationwide attention, might result in a hefty sentence. Can't say this is per se wrong.

As for live-ruining crimes that go unpunished: mostly due to lack of evidence, rather than disagreement on the severity of the crime.

 

[Daemon]

send them over to singapore. get just one stroke of the cane, would be more than enough to keep them crying for days.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Or we could send them to Hull although I think the human rights act forbids it.

After the ban is up I say we give Amir a passport and stick him in the England side, far too many Englishmen in the current line up.

 

[Cabinet96]

Anyone think that this would be less likely to happen if Pakistan players could play in the IPL? I mean why would Amir feel the need to fix for $2,500 when he could play in India for 6 weeks and get $500,000.

Expecting Asif to be available to play against Sri Lanka in the first one dayer.

And skippering the 3rd one.

 

[slowfinger]

Pish posh. Is it only me because I can't see Amir wearing a Pakistan Badge ever again? Or massive disgrace if he does?

 

[silentstriker]

Truthfully, I'd much rather they be banned from the game forever than get jail terms. It makes little sense to get jail terms when you're talking about like $5000. People get nothing (or probation) in the financial industry for stealing millions.

The crime/punishment is totally out of whack (in the US too).

 

[SJS]

It is disgusting to hear all the talk about the Pakistani players not making enough money (or hints in that direction) in connection with the match/spot fixing. Yesterday there was someone on TV talking about paying the cricketers more so that they are not tempted to make extra bucks. One has heard similar arguments being bandied around to justify the corrupt cops in India.

I guess the Somalis have to be sympathised with for being forced into becoming pirates for the abject conditions in their country

 

[Xuhaib]

Anyone think that this would be less likely to happen if Pakistan players could play in the IPL? I mean why would Amir feel the need to fix for $2,500 when he could play in India for 6 weeks and get $500,000.



And skippering the 3rd one.

Salman Butt declared legal earnings were $ 1.4 million over a 7 yr career someone of Aamer's talent would have earned atleast 5 times more.Money excuse is pretty poor imo.

 

[SJS]

So you will take Mazhar Majeed's words that there were other instances? If that is the case then, he also claimed that Australian players were also involved.

Yes he did and why cant that be true as well. The fact that Australians and Indians and Sri Lankans and others may also be involved does not change the facts of the current case of the Pakistani cricketers, does it?

 

[four_or_six]

Pish posh. Is it only me because I can't see Amir wearing a Pakistan Badge ever again? Or massive disgrace if he does?

What is still frustrating is that we still don't really know what happened. IMO that has a massive impact on how I would feel if Amir played again.

One possible scenario is that the whole time Amir has been playing fixing like this was being done in the team, most players and management knew about it, and he just basically fell into it, reluctantly or possibly under pressure from others.

At the other end of the spectrum, Amir heard a rumour such a thing was possible and hassled Butt until he set up the deal with Majeed and got him in on it.

The reality, of course, is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[Cruxdude]

Quite happy with these guys being sent to jail. This is more of a deterrent than banning for 5 years. Only wish this had been done 10 years ago too. Would have loved seeing ****s like Azhar in the jail (though that would have just added to his resume and gotten him into the parliament earlier).

BTW, why did the trio actually turn up for the hearing? Couldn't they have just stayed back like the SA players? Is there some sort of treaty between England and Pakistan?

 

[Xuhaib]

What is still frustrating is that we still don't really know what happened. IMO that has a massive impact on how I would feel if Amir played again.

One possible scenario is that the whole time Amir has been playing fixing like this was being done in the team, most players and management knew about it, and he just basically fell into it, reluctantly or possibly under pressure from others.

At the other end of the spectrum, Amir heard a rumour such a thing was possible and hassled Butt until he set up the deal with Majeed and got him in on it.

The reality, of course, is probably somewhere in the middle.

Aamer spend majority of his junior career playing under the guidance of Ijaz Ahmed who was the coach of Pakistan U 19 I am sure this is where Aamer fist got his exposure to fixing as Ijaz was named as a major player in the Qayyum report. it is no surprises that two other Ijaz's pupil (Umer Akmal, Umer Amin) were also briefly linked to this case initially but survived due to lack of evidence, Fault lies with PCB for employing Ijaz with the junior players when it was clearly mentioned in Qayyum report that he should never be involved in cricket in any capacity and guess what he is still part of our team management :facepalm.

 

[Fusion]

BTW, why did the trio actually turn up for the hearing? Couldn't they have just stayed back like the SA players? Is there some sort of treaty between England and Pakistan?

I actually wondered this myself. Based on the evidence, it was fairly obvious that they would be found guilty. Especially in the case of Butt and Asif, I wonder why they didn't just chose to stay in Pakistan. They wouldn't have been able to visit England again, or play cricket, but I doubt that would've mattered to them considering the punishment they were facing. I also doubt if Pakistan would've extradited them (assuming there even is an extradition treaty between the two countries).

 

[fredfertang]

I think there must have been pressure put on them to attend from the Pakistani Government - as you say they had nothing to gain by turning up. Personally I just expected them to say they weren't coming because they didn't believe they'd get a fair trial

Another possibility, or more likely in conjunction with that, is that their legal teams, with no element of self-interest, obviously, advised them they had a half decent case

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I actually wondered this myself. Based on the evidence, it was fairly obvious that they would be found guilty. Especially in the case of Butt and Asif, I wonder why they didn't just chose to stay in Pakistan. They wouldn't have been able to visit England again, or play cricket, but I doubt that would've mattered to them considering the punishment they were facing. I also doubt if Pakistan would've extradited them (assuming there even is an extradition treaty between the two countries).

Maybe they were so arrogant they thought they would get away with it?

Must admit I was surprised they didn't do a runner, then again that would have shown obvious guilt that might have meant ICC banned them forever for not going to the court.

 

[Cruxdude]

Maybe they were so arrogant they thought they would get away with it?

Must admit I was surprised they didn't do a runner, then again that would have shown obvious guilt that might have meant ICC banned them forever for not going to the court.

That was the impression Butt gave all through the trial.

 

[SJS]

I think there must have been pressure put on them to attend from the Pakistani Government - as you say they had nothing to gain by turning up. Personally I just expected them to say they weren't coming because they didn't believe they'd get a fair trial

Another possibility, or more likely in conjunction with that, is that their legal teams, with no element of self-interest, obviously, advised them they had a half decent case

I think they, like the majority of people in India, never knew of a justice system that could not be "managed". So many people get away with so much back home that they must have believed that their lawyers/board/government would manage.

In the subcontinent we are so used to the concept of repeating a lie over and over till it seems to sound like the truth that we do not think any other kind of system exists. All the skepticism that one hears about the trial and the hints (much more than hints really) that they were somehow framed comes from the same mentality.There are people who talk of white man's justice as if someone in England had a score to settle against Pakistan. Fortunately their are more saner voices coming out this time still there is enough of the conspiracy theory still around.

 

[SJS]

As an aside, I was thinking there is finally some logic in declaring your age to be lower than it actually is . . . lower sentences . . . juvenile homes instead of prisons . . .just kidding :-)

 

[Cevno]

Must admit I was surprised they didn't do a runner, then again that would have shown obvious guilt that might have meant ICC banned them forever for not going to the court.

Don't think so tbh.

Gibbs and Boje never came to India for questioning for years(and Cronje went away too), until things calmed down. There wasn't a case registered either till then and the ICC didn't take any extra action. Kings commision was setup in South Africa, where admissions were made.

I believe Marlon Samuels still has some sort of warrant regards to questioning pending in India IIRC and he didn't want to come here for the World Cup. I am not sure if he will come this time or will he be given some assurances before he comes wrt to it or questioned.

Warne and Waugh never went to Srilanka / Pakistan for questioning either, but the Pakistan Judicial commission came to Melbourne.

After this very less chance Akmal and Riaz will show up in UK, for further questioning.

 

[Cevno]

I think there must have been pressure put on them to attend from the Pakistani Government - as you say they had nothing to gain by turning up. Personally I just expected them to say they weren't coming because they didn't believe they'd get a fair trial

Another possibility, or more likely in conjunction with that, is that their legal teams, with no element of self-interest, obviously, advised them they had a half decent case

Think, these guys and their lawyers thought they could get away with a suspended sentence or something lighter than what they got.

And this in turn will help their appeal in CAS and ICC to reduce their bans. Otherwise, if they don't turn up it will weaken their case. Turned up opposite pending on appeal. Doubt Pakistani government would have put much pressure or them tbh.