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Zaheer on Indian bowling

ganeshran

ganeshran

International Debutant
More to do with overcoaching and bowlers themselves not wanting to work hard to bowl fast after the first injury.
 
karan316

karan316

State Vice-Captain
Well,the very first point I would like to make here is that our domestic structure is pathetic.
Most of the bowlers have to give up pace because of the amount of matches being played(which results in injuries) and secondly the pitches which do not support the faster bowlers at all,
The pitches are either flat, or the ones which offer turn, and the SG balls are used in India which help the bowlers who swing the ball in the air, all these factors give encouragement to swing bowling and spin bowling, faster bowlers don't get much rewards and also become injury prone because of playing 4 day games every week(bowling 40 to 50 overs a week) once the tournament(e.g. Ranji trophy) starts ,in most cases, the bowlers look to become line and length bowlers or swing bowlers and give up pace.

Our domestic structure has to be redesigned, there should be less, but quality cricket, players with potential should be given special training under a team of coaches(in NCA) to make them aware about what exactly they need to do to maintain their fitness for the highest level and their workload must be monitored. There should be proper guidance, if the selectors want a particular bowler, he should first be sent to NCA for 3 months, so that he is groomed properly and is ready for the international arena. Extra bowlers should be carried with the 15 or 16 member squad, so that they get an opportunity to be trained under international level coaches,physios,etc. and get the much needed exposure before they are actually selected.
 
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M

miscer

U19 Cricketer
if we consider height to be a traits that benefits fast bowlers (all else equal) it should be noted that the average height for indian males is something like 5'4". im fairly certain it's the lowest among cricketing nations. it woud be interesting to do a height vs fast bowling quality over the years comparison. im sure ud find a correlation there (adjusted for population and time playing cricket etc).

From what I can find with some quick searches for men:
india 5'4"
uk 5'9.5"
australia 5'9.5"
new zealand 5'9"
South africa 5'6.5" (not broken down by race since most south african cricketers are white and the population is black, I think this should be noted).
Pakistan 5'6.5"
Sri Lanka 5'6"

West Indies: More difficult to find but I found jamaica's height (idk if any cricketer is from jamaica anyway)
-5'8"
 
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karan316

karan316

State Vice-Captain
miscer said:
if we consider height to be a traits that benefits fast bowlers (all else equal) it should be noted that the average height for indian males is something like 5'4". im fairly certain it's the lowest among cricketing nations. it woud be interesting to do a height vs fast bowling quality over the years comparison. im sure ud find a correlation there (adjusted for population and time playing cricket etc).

From what I can find with some quick searches for men:
india 5'4"
uk 5'9.5"
australia 5'9.5"
new zealand 5'9"
South africa 5'6.5" (not broken down by race since most south african cricketers are white and the population is black, I think this should be noted).
Pakistan 5'6.5"
Sri Lanka 5'6"

West Indies: More difficult to find but I found jamaica's height (idk if any cricketer is from jamaica anyway)
-5'8"
Click to expand...
I really doubt if height can be a huge factor,
its not that we are not getting fast bowlers at all,
we are getting some good fast bowlers, but whatever options that are available are not managed well, they are not developed and look after nor are they given chances at the right time,
and in the end, the bowlers are blamed for not able to maintain the level of fitness required and other such things.
 
I

iamdavid

International Debutant
You could argue that Indians are inherently less given to being as tall and perhaps having the same fast-twitch muscle profile as players from other parts of the world, but every healthy male and certainly every professional athlete, given the time and resources they've got available, is capable of achieving a reasonable level of fitness. And the majority of the Indian fast bowlers simply don't look like they're doing it, they look in poor physical shape. Sreesanth, RP Singh, Ishant, they look skinny and soft. Zaheer often looks overweight and poorly conditioned.

Contrast that with the Australian fast bowlers, they're all in very impressive physical shape (Bollinger and Copeland perhaps being the exceptions). Mitchell Johnson for example wouldn't look out of place as a back on a pro rugby team, I don't think it's any coincidence that he's still regularly in the mid-140's and barely ever injured at 30 years of age.

At the level the Indian bowlers are playing, access to good information and facilities shouldn't be an issue, I suspect it comes down to attitude.

I realise that in South Africa/NZL/Australia/UK we have a bit more of a 'gym-culture' due to the prevelance of contact sports, in which you simply won't get anywhere if you're not bloody fit and strong. Lack of any popular contact sports plus economic factors probably mean young Indian bowlers are less used to the idea of smashing themselves in the gym and getting supremely fit, but given the consistent problems they've had keeping young bowlers on the park and getting them to retain their pace you'd think the back room staff or the bowlers themselves would've put two and two together by now.
 
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Daemon

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
iamdavid said:
You could argue that Indians are inherently less given to being as tall and perhaps having the same fast-twitch muscle profile as players from other parts of the world, but every healthy male and certainly every professional athlete, given the time and resources they've got available, is capable of achieving a reasonable level of fitness. And the majority of the Indian fast bowlers simply don't look like they're doing it, they look in poor physical shape. Sreesanth, RP Singh, Ishant, they look skinny and soft. Zaheer often looks overweight and poorly conditioned.

Contrast that with the Australian fast bowlers, they're all in very impressive physical shape (Bollinger and Copeland perhaps being the exceptions). Mitchell Johnson for example wouldn't look out of place as a back on a pro rugby team, I don't think it's any coincidence that he's still regularly in the mid-140's and barely ever injured at 30 years of age.

At the level the Indian bowlers are playing, access to good information and facilities shouldn't be an issue, I suspect it comes down to attitude.

I realise that in South Africa/NZL/Australia/UK we have a bit more of a 'gym-culture' due to the prevelance of contact sports, in which you simply won't get anywhere if you're not bloody fit and strong. Lack of any popular contact sports plus economic factors probably mean young Indian bowlers are less used to the idea of smashing themselves in the gym and getting supremely fit, but given the consistent problems they've had keeping young bowlers on the park and getting them to retain their pace you'd think the back room staff or the bowlers themselves would've put two and two together by now.
Click to expand...
Was there a 'gym culture' in the mentioned countries about 30 years ago?
 
G.I.Joe

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Isn't it generally accepted that Pathan lost his pace because he hit the gym too hard? IMO most bowlers seem to be unaware of basic muscle physiology.
 
Daemon

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Also Pakistan has as much (or as little) of a gym culture as India tbf, and they produce tons of great fast bowlers.


I'm telling you guys, you need to eat beef/mutton to bowl fast, you just have to.
 
I

iamdavid

International Debutant
Daemon said:
Also Pakistan has as much (or as little) of a gym culture as India tbf, and they produce tons of great fast bowlers.


I'm telling you guys, you need to eat beef/mutton to bowl fast, you just have to.
Click to expand...
True, but I was refering to the individuals as much as the culture behind them. The Pakistani fast bowlers over the past decade or two have generally appeared fitter than their Indian counterparts imo. They've had specimens like Waqar and Umar Gul who are obviously in pretty good shape, even Shoaib for example, he might not have had the greatest endurance at times but he was very strong and obviously spent a fair bit of time in the gym.

I can't think of any Indians over the past 20-odd years who'd match those guys.

Daemon said:
Was there a 'gym culture' in the mentioned countries about 30 years ago?
Click to expand...
Yep. It extended to cricket too. Dennis Lillee's exploits in the gym post-injury are pretty well known. The game was also obviously less professional and there generally wasn't as much cricket played, thus fitness requirements were generally lower and players could get away with being a little sloppier.
 
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