Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[Hurricane]

Bun is winning this thread, IMO.

Arguing that Shane Warne's off field antics are somehow relevant to the discussion is not winning the thread unless the readers of this thread lack judgement.

As far as I know you can be an ex convict and still be selected to play test cricket.

 

[Cevno]

Eh.

It can be complex, playing the victim.

Haha!! Wasn't even talking about myself and nobody is the victim here.

In any case it is pretty clear from the first few pages of this thread what i was talking about with some of the reactions which are the opposite of constructive or articulate. Not everyone can agree on everything tbh and disagreement shouldn't be taken personally.

 

[fredfertang]

Don't really care about the length of his ban finer minds than I can debate that. But just want to say that I disagree with this logic that his confession should cause a reassessment of his ban. He had his day in court with the ICC and chose not to confess that was his chance. Confessing much later in England is irrelevant.

Quite - a guilty plea here will entitle him to some credit when he comes to be sentenced, albeit not as much as he would have got had it done it from the off, but that is no basis at all for the ICC to reopen their proceedings. I suppose it might be different if either or both of Asif and Butt fall on their swords and make it clear that in fact he was a lot less culpable than the ICC were entitled to assume he was, but I really can't see that happening, and indeed am wholly unconvinced by this entire story atm

 

[Cevno]

Can they be facing Jailing time as a result of this trial?

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't know much about the workings of the ICC's disciplinary system, but the cynic in me thinks he may've been advised to cop the guilty plea by his legal chaps in the criminal case based on (one supposes given the verdict returned by the cricketing authorities) a likely guilty verdict and a lesser sentence for playing ball and not going to trial.

If the ICC gives no credit for a confession there was no mileage in a guilty plea in the cricketing case.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Staggering amount of self-delusion in the thread. Bet your bottom dollar we wouldn't be subject to all this hollow defence if it had been an 18 year fumbling Kamran Akmal instead of a promising quick. TTboy's revelation that the prick had already spent 5 years playing representative cricket exposes the protestations of innocence for what they really are.

 

[fredfertang]

Can they be facing Jailing time as a result of this trial?

Undoubtedly facing one, though I can't see it happening myself, unless they really take the piss during their trial, but if they did I'm sure it would be measured in months rather than years

 

[Cevno]

Staggering amount of self-delusion in the thread. Bet your bottom dollar we wouldn't be subject to all this hollow defence if it had been an 18 year fumbling Kamran Akmal instead of a promising quick. TTboy's revelation that the prick had already spent 5 years playing representative cricket exposes the protestations of innocence for what they really are.

Where?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Where?

'Snot hidden, tbf:

Indeed, it doesn't at all. Amir was involved in Pak representative sides from the age of 13, surely when he is playing for Pak U19 (at the age of 14 according to listed age) or what have you, the players are taught and brought up to speed on what’s cricket and what isn’t? He wasn't same kid who was called up from the village and chucked into the national side. Kid was talked for years about being the next big thing in Pak cricket and toured here, there and everywhere (including England) playing for Pak U19. If he wasn't for a stress fracture of the back he would have played in 2 U19 World Cups before the age of 17.

Though conversely when Pak employ coaches like Ijaz Ahmed as their U19 coach and national batting coach, what do you expect? Ijaz was probably worse than his brother in-law Saleem Malik as Ijaz according to Ata-ur-Rehman and Intikhab Alam was still capable of fixing games he didn’t even play in.

 

[Cevno]

Missed that post.

I think there is a implicit lack of understanding of the type of background he comes from, and type of scenario that exists in some cases in the subcontinent for such cricketers coming from the education and economic background they come from. Also a lack of understanding about the scenario that exists in the dressing rooms,among officials and the general law and order scenario in some cases with relation to the existence of Bookies operating in the country illegaly.

 

[ankitj]

Arguing that Shane Warne's off field antics are somehow relevant to the discussion is not winning the thread unless the readers of this thread lack judgement.

As far as I know you can be an ex convict and still be selected to play test cricket.

The argument about Shane Warne is not what I agree with. And I consider Warne a gem of a guy, ftr. His personal life is his, his persona on cricket field is extremely likable, much more so than those of McGrath and Ponting.

I did consider it a big loss when he was banned for drug consumption, and wished him a second chance. To an extent I am wish Amer gets a second chance too (don't how much of a douche he as an individual is)

 

[Burgey]

He's repentant. He's a potful of genius. Genius that is human and flawed. But must be given a second chance. Imagine what would've happened if we lost Shane Warne for 5 years in 2003? No Ashes 2005. no 700 wickets. No glory. Yes, he was stupid. He cheated his own wife (a worse crime imho) in personal life. Yet cricket chose to reward his genius on field. Asif, Amir all belong in the same category.

I want them to come back, They deserve a second chance.

Well played. Maybe the Most ridiculous post in CC history.

 

[Furball]

Staggering amount of self-delusion in the thread. Bet your bottom dollar we wouldn't be subject to all this hollow defence if it had been an 18 year fumbling Kamran Akmal instead of a promising quick. TTboy's revelation that the prick had already spent 5 years playing representative cricket exposes the protestations of innocence for what they really are.

I don't think we'd be seeing any of the defence we're seeing, certainly not from the people who are doing the defending, if it had been Michael Amir from England or Australia.

 

[Bun]

I don't think we'd be seeing any of the defence we're seeing, certainly not from the people who are doing the defending, if it had been Michael Amir from England or Australia.

That goes both ways.

 

[GotSpin]

Just read some of this thread. Well done CW. You suck

 

[Furball]

That goes both ways.

Nah, funnily enough we come from cultures where corruption isn't as tolerated.

 

[Howe_zat]

I remember when I was 19 and all this started, and how utterly patronising I thought it was that Amir seemed to get so much sympathy for being young.

Seems to have got worse.

Hey, y'know, sometime teenagers can think. And that's as if the moron was really 18 anyway.

 

[indiaholic]

Staggering amount of self-delusion in the thread. Bet your bottom dollar we wouldn't be subject to all this hollow defence if it had been an 18 year fumbling Kamran Akmal instead of a promising quick. TTboy's revelation that the prick had already spent 5 years playing representative cricket exposes the protestations of innocence for what they really are.

This. + Infinity
The assumption that a child living in India or Pakistan doesn't know about the possible pitfalls of matchfixing is ludicrous. And the question is not just whether the 5 year ban is fair on Amir. All punishments that are handed out are expected to act as a deterrent for other players. That is why a lifetime ban would have been appropriate in my opinion. It would have sent out a message that if you are embroiled in spot or match fixing, then there will be no redemption for you.

I think Bun made a post where he said that the incident did not affect his viewing of the game. But it did for me. Whenever Amir bowled an "insignificant" no ball he did something that hurt his own team and thus fundamentally distorted the assumption that underlies all sport: Each team is doing its utmost to win. And please no WWE comparisons. It is not a sport. It is more like gymnastics at a circus: Athletic feats designed to entertain, not a competition.

 

[joker4life]

Is this news confirmed yet? I don't see it in cricinfo.. and if I don't see it there.. It is masala news for me..

in defense to Aamir and I don't know why I am defending him.. we have had guys like wasim akram, waqar younis, salim malik, ijaz ahmad, Shane Warne, Mark Waugh, Mohammad Azharudian, Ajay Jadeja, Harshal Gibbs, and afew others who were very popular and even what we all call legends now have been associated with match fixing... spot fixing or whatever you call it..

most of these guys got proper second, third chances.. they were either fined or handed short bans.. It makes me sick even now when I see guys like wasim akram and warne are described as legend.. specially when they comment about match fixing or spot fixing.. I just feel if these grown up men who were very very respected during that time when they were involved in match fixing were pardoned. why not to a 18 years old kid..

Now i am not saying give second chance to Butt or Asif.. just Aamir.

 

[indiaholic]

I remember when I was 19 and all this started, and how utterly patronising I thought it was that Amir seemed to get so much sympathy for being young.

Seems to have got worse.

Hey, y'know, sometime teenagers can think. And that's as if the moron was really 18 anyway.

Agree with this.