Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll

[Darth018]

BTW, love how my arguments and stats are all fantastic here but aren't in the other thread...when basically they are the same type of arguments - era, etc.

Of course its fantastic. It helps out Imran Khan this time so how can it not be.

 

[smash84]

Really? Apologies. Almost seemed to me as if you disagreed with everything I said

Of course I disagreed with almost everything you said . Doesn't mean that I didn't think that the arguments were good .

 

[smash84]

Not at all. He is batting is by far ahead of Khan's bowling.

This. I would define it with his superior batting stats.

How would you define their superior skills cancel each other out?

If you base it on stats alone (especially bowling average) then you might make a case for Imran's bowling edging out Sobers's batting. Imran's bowling average is under 30 in EVERY country that he bowled in . Not even McGrath, Hadlee or Marshall have that distinction.

Sobers in batting otoh did not do that well against NZ in general and in NZ in particular. Also his record in Pakistan wasn't that great.

Which is why I say that their stronger skills cancel each other out.

Of course its fantastic. It helps out Imran Khan this time so how can it not be.

I see you are back but haven't said anything of value. So are you here for debating or only for baiting

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Imran was better than Sobers because he managed to catch Jemima

 

[Darth018]

If you base it on stats alone (especially bowling average) then you might make a case for Imran's bowling edging out Sobers's batting. Imran's bowling average is under 30 in EVERY country that he bowled in . Not even McGrath, Hadlee or Marshall have that distinction.

How is that in anyway relevant? He also never averaged less than 20 against any country other the Sri Lanka the minnows. Even James Anderson has managed that.

I see you are back but haven't said anything of value. So are you here for debating or only for baiting

lol at me debating for baiting. If your gonna waste my time with irrelevant posts like that I see no point to debate with you.

I just love how you say Ikki makes good arguments now that he backing up Imran Khan yet you had no problem with teaming up with the likes of kyer2, Silfer and all the others to prove him wrong when he was pretty much making the same type of arguments in the Mcgrath V Marshall thread. How ironic lol.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Imran was better than Sobers because he managed to catch Jemima

He also proceeded to eventually drop the catch

 

[smash84]

How is that in anyway relevant? He also never averaged less than 20 against any country other the Sri Lanka the minnows. Even James Anderson has managed that.

How is that not relevant? It shows Imran has a very complete record as a bowler.

What does your James Anderson point prove?

 

[smash84]

He also proceeded to eventually drop the catch

.....

 

[Slifer]

How is that in anyway relevant? He also never averaged less than 20 against any country other the Sri Lanka the minnows. Even James Anderson has managed that.



lol at me debating for baiting. If your gonna waste my time with irrelevant posts like that I see no point to debate with you.

I just love how you say Ikki makes good arguments now that he backing up Imran Khan yet you had no problem with teaming up with the likes of kyer2, Silfer and all the others to prove him wrong when he was pretty much making the same type of arguments in the Mcgrath V Marshall thread. How ironic lol.

No no no. In this thread there is no denying Sobers' bowling was below par and that, if I'm correct Ikki considers that aspect of his game to be overrated. However, MM has no such chinks in his armor no matter how u slice and dice it. If Ikki were to be consistent then he would consider Lillee to be Mcgraths (and MM) inferior since (like Sobers) Lillee is not statistically ne where near being the undisputed greatest fast bowler.

 

[BlazeDragon]

No no no. In this thread there is no denying Sobers' bowling was below par and that, if I'm correct Ikki considers that aspect of his game to be overrated. However, MM has no such chinks in his armor no matter how u slice and dice it. If Ikki were to be consistent then he would consider Lillee to be Mcgraths (and MM) inferior since (like Sobers) Lillee is not statistically ne where near being the undisputed greatest fast bowler.

Ikki himself was saying that his arguments in both thread were pretty much the same.

BTW, love how my arguments and stats are all fantastic here but aren't in the other thread...when basically they are the same type of arguments - era, etc.

I don't get where you arrived at your conclusion from.

 

[honestbharani]

How is that not relevant? It shows Imran has a very complete record as a bowler.

What does your James Anderson point prove?

That while Imran did not exactly prove "less than average" anywhere, he didn't prove himself to be "that" brilliant anywhere either. That is what that stat proves...

 

[smash84]

That while Imran did not exactly prove "less than average" anywhere, he didn't prove himself to be "that" brilliant anywhere either. That is what that stat proves...

Emmm his record against the WI? Arguably the finest side history.

What do you mean by "that" brilliant? He is arguably the finest fast bowler from Asia and his record is mighty impressive.

 

[archie mac]

is this back. Could not be bothered in going through all of this thread but I am pretty sure I was on Sobers side. Three in one bowler great batsman and great fielder. Not a great captain from what I read but still an easy winner here

Still think Imran a great player

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

is this back. Could not be bothered in going through all of this thread but I am pretty sure I was on Sobers side. Three in one bowler great batsman and great fielder. Not a great captain from what I read but still an easy winner here

Still think Imran a great player

I have the same opinion. No shame in coming second best to Sobers. Slightly ahead of (or perhaps at par with) Keith Miller.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

As you say that it was not the wisest thing to do because on a fast bowler's track Sobers would have found assistance for pace bowling if the other bowlers were not as effective. So it would make more sense for him to use fast bowling more than spin just for the sake of variety. The other way around for pitches supporting spin.

True. But from what I gather, the man was a bit of a natural punter. In cricket and possibly also in life. Maybe, he had a predilection for bowling in different ways and trying to master them all. His spin bowling was considerably his weaker suit, but that didn't discouraged him sufficiently from bowling that. Tactically, it was perhaps best if he stuck with pace for all conditions, but maybe it was too bland for his adventurous nature. And since his team results weren't all that bad, maybe such a need was never forced upon him.

I am venturing a guess here based on what I've read from other cricketers about him. Could be well off the mark!

 

[archie mac]

I have the same opinion. No shame in coming second best to Sobers. Slightly ahead of (or perhaps at par with) Keith Miller.

Keith Miller is a hard one because after his war experiences he sometimes would not give 100%. Always thought his batting at Test level should have been better. Although Imran also showed he could score runs when he did not have to bowl

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Keith Miller is a hard one because after his war experiences he sometimes would not give 100%. Always thought his batting at Test level should have been better. Although Imran also showed he could score runs when he did not have to bowl

Yeah, always difficult to accurately assess these whimsical types. Sobers, to some degree, was cut of the same cloth too.

Imran wasn't close to being as naturally talented as those guys, but he performed out of his skin in test cricket. In bowling and especially in his batting, he made every effort to maximise the output from his (relatively) modest talent.

Even among the fab four, Botham and Kapil Dev were perhaps more naturally gifted batsmen than Imran; yet didn't perform as well as they ought to have.

 

[smash84]

Yeah, always difficult to accurately assess these whimsical types. Sobers, to some degree, was cut of the same cloth too.

Imran wasn't close to being as naturally talented as those guys, but he performed out of his skin in test cricket. In bowling and especially in his batting, he made every effort to maximise the output from his (relatively) modest talent.

Even among the fab four, Botham and Kapil Dev were perhaps more naturally gifted batsmen than Imran; yet didn't perform as well as they ought to have.

Pretty much agree with this assessment. Botham was probably the most talented of all the all rounders of the 80s. Kapil also had great ability with the bat (better than Imran) but Imran was definitely the most hard working of the lot. Which is one of the reasons that I rate him very highly. There have been many more talented cricketers from Pakistan (let alone the world) but there were VERY few if any who worked harder. I remember one of the documentaries on Imran where he was telling that used to run in the park in the summers of Lahore at mid-day and people used to think he had gone mad. It gets VERY hot in the summers in Lahore.

 

[smash84]

True. But from what I gather, the man was a bit of a natural punter. In cricket and possibly also in life. Maybe, he had a predilection for bowling in different ways and trying to master them all. His spin bowling was considerably his weaker suit, but that didn't discouraged him sufficiently from bowling that. Tactically, it was perhaps best if he stuck with pace for all conditions, but maybe it was too bland for his adventurous nature. And since his team results weren't all that bad, maybe such a need was never forced upon him.

I am venturing a guess here based on what I've read from other cricketers about him. Could be well off the mark!

Didn't know about this.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Didn't know about this.

Scored his runs fast, spoke fast, bowled fast, drove fast and loved fast women, if Gavaskar, Kanhai and others are to be believed! Must have been a great guy to provide life to a party, never mind his immense cricketing skills!