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***Official*** Australia in Sri Lanka

Top_Cat

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Truth is, Cal's a really great bloke and I doubt he'd disagree with anything you've said. But he's been given a free ride to higher levels since he was 12 because he looks class. It hasn't helped his career in my opinion (only in the last couple of years has he fixed his issues with starting his knocks) but you'd hardly turn it down if someone handed it to you, would you?
 

adub

International Captain
Truth is, Cal's a really great bloke and I doubt he'd disagree with anything you've said. But he's been given a free ride to higher levels since he was 12 because he looks class. It hasn't helped his career in my opinion (only in the last couple of years has he fixed his issues with starting his knocks) but you'd hardly turn it down if someone handed it to you, would you?
I'm sure Callum is a wonderful guy, and I actually like him immensely at ODI level. He does look a class bat. But I'm one of those grumpy bastards that would rather watch Steve Waugh grind out an ugly ton than watch his brother glide to 30 before holing out to cover.

I don't criticise any player who gets given an opportunity from taking it. My criticism of M Beer, J Krezja, X Doherty or N Lyons is not that they have the temerity to turn up to the airport after they've been selected. It is of the morons who picked them despite having no first class performance to justify it.

The other problem I have is this confusion of one-day and 20-20 results with Test selection. It just ain't the same thing at all, but typical Hilditch idiocy to come out and say the selectors rate ODI results more than First Class. Michael Bevan was one of the greatest First Class batsmen in the history of the Shield, but he got found out at test level and had his papers stamped. The fact he was far and away the best ODI batsman in the world couldn't revive his test career, but now you play a couple of half decent innings in some meaningless ODI series and your the next cab on the test rank no matter how awful your FC career is. It's enough to make you want to go all De Niro as Al Capone with a baseball bat to the back of Hilditch's head.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I'm with adub on Marsh and Ferguson; the over-stated credentials of those two players in particular is something I have posted about at length on here before. It doesn't really bother me that they're in the frame too much as I've lowered my expectations of the selectors considerably and they have indeed improved a bit, but it is something that grates me.

I think they can used as great examples of two things staggeringly wrong with Australian cricket. The first of which is something I think even a lot of forum members here gloss over or deny - the fact that Australia simply had a generation of players come through who weren't that good. Marsh and Ferguson, at 28 and 26, are essentially in the perfect age range that selectors should be looking at bringing batsmen into the team at, and its this age group who we were expecting to choose from when replacing Hayden, Langer, etc. However, the blokes who are that age just haven't come through as many had hoped. Marsh and Ferguson haven't done anywhere near as well in the Shield as their predecessors and this is even despite the fact that the overall standard of it has declined. The other highly-rated young batsmen of their generation who did well at youth level - White, Doropolous, Simmons, Cowan, Birt, Paine etc - have all faired similarly or worse. It just didn't happen for these blokes for whatever reason, and it forced the selectors into firstly persisting with Marcus North too long in hope of him bridging the gap a bit, and secondly into turning to players with limited First Class experience such as Hughes, Khawaja and Smith before it was really ideal.

Secondly, they're basically posterboys for style over substance. They've both been chosen ones form a young age, always being promoted and congratulated at even the hint of success and fast-tracked ahead of other players who had performed to a higher standard because they just look so ****ing awesome when they score runs (and they do, not denying that). I think the O'Keefe/Lyon example is better here now though. Hand on heart, having seen a lot of O'Keefe now and more of Lyon than probably anyone on this forum (err Julian aside), I don't think O'Keefe is actually more likely by any real margin to make a contribution in Sri Lanka. That's not exactly the point, though, particularly when it's not just been a one-off punt or one-off snubbing but has instead become a matter of policy. Regardless of whether or not Keefers would make a good Test bowler, you do have to reward domestic performance at least most of the time to send the right message back to the entire system. The message the selectors are sending to all the cricketers in Australia - be they spinners or middle order batsmen or whoever - is that the way to crack the team is not to find a way of playing that actually works, but to find a way of playing that people think should work, whether it does or not. The arrogance in selection, that will only get worse under Chappell, which is to ignore results completely and assume a greater knowledge of the game than the game itself, is by far the biggest problem here. As I said, it's okay to have a punt very occasionally as a selector, or to use aesthetics and conventional wisdom to split two players of similar credentials, but it seems to be the first port of call when selecting any player now. We're now discouraging players from succeeding in any way possible and teaching them to look good at all costs. I'm not normally one to say the sky is falling but if that isn't corrected then things will get worse before they get better.
 
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adub

International Captain
The arrogance in selection, that will only get worse under Chappell, which is to ignore results completely and assume a greater knowledge of the game than the game itself, is by far the biggest problem here.
That's the money quote for me. The beauty of the game is that over time it well and truly sorts you out and puts you in your place. Stats don't tell the whole story but they tell a very big part of the story. If your fc average is in the 30s over a long period as a batsman, well that's the game's way of telling you you ain't good enough for test cricket. Same with bowlers with averages in the 40s. You can talk about technique and aesthetics til the cows come home. It's not rhythmic gymnastics or synchronized swimming where you win if the judges think you look pretty. You win if your team scores more runs than the other mob - end of. You don't get to outsmart the game very often. The guys with great test averages are invariably the guys who had great fc averages. It's pretty rare for their to be a huge discrepancy between the two. They're the ones who've found what it takes to succeed more often than their peers. They are the guys who tough it out when it isn't going their way more often. They should be rewarded when a spot in the test side comes up. Hail Marys like Warne might come off every now and then but you'll have plenty more failures if your selection policy is relying on finding needles in haystacks rather than rewarding the guys who perform the best at the level below.
 

Spikey

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does touch on something i've thought about before though - we never really had a problem with hilditch until greggy C came along did we? i mean sure the panel made stuff ups here and there, but it wasn't until greggy c joined the panel that they started making stuff ups every single time they named a squad right? so is Hildtich really a massive problem? or will he just be the fall guy while Chappell does his work which has been a proven failure in South Aus., in India and to a degree at the cricket academy


obv i'm in favour of kicking them all out and starting again. but...
 
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adub

International Captain
does touch on something i've thought about before though - we never really had a problem with hilditch until greggy C came along did we? i mean sure the panel made stuff ups here and there, but it wasn't until greggy c joined the panel that they started making stuff ups every single time they named a squad right? so is Hildtich really a massive problem? or will he just be the fall guy while Chappell does his work which has been a proven failure in South Aus., in India and to a degree at the cricket academy


obv i'm in favour of kicking them all out and starting again. but...
My problems with Hilditch go much further back than that.
 

howardj

International Coach
I do think one can get too hung up on overall career statistics at times. For mine, his inclusion in the SL squad can be justified on several fronts. First, his FC record over teh past two years (averaging over 50). Second, he has looked the part in international cricket to date (or certainly not looked out of his depth). Third, there is a lack of alternatives, and frankly our batting has been diabolical in recent times.
 
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howardj

International Coach
In a perfect world, we'd all like to pick guys who were piling on the FC runs before their 21st birthday - Ponting, Hayden, Martyn etc. But you have to work with what you've got.
 

howardj

International Coach
And hey we just tried going young with guys who were belting FC tons before the 21st birthday - Phil Hughes and Steve Smith.
 

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Indeed we did. Cant please everyone. I guess what everyone wants is guys to be picked that are say 25 with a FC average of 50, like in the 90's where there were just so many. Seems embarrassing now looking back- Martyn, Lehmann, Elliott, Hayden, Ponting, Love, Langer, Blewett etc, all fine players who had more than enough runs on the board to warrant selection. Not so these days.
 

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