***Official*** Australia in Sri Lanka

[Andre]

Can't say I disagree with Craddock on this one though. The only problem with his arguement is the precendents the panel have set - if they hadn't picked some people from the sky then I'd agree that O'Keefe should be making those phone calls.

However, the theory behind Crash's article is sound - the fact a guy who's played 14 first class games is rining the chairman to find out why he isn't there highlights the massive issues we have in our selection system at the moment.

 

[Jacknife]

Disappointing from Rob Craddock in the paper this morning:

I almost crashed into my cornflakes on Sunday morning reading where NSW spinner Stephen O'Keefe - have you heard of him? - was seeking an "honest and frank response" from selection chairman Andrew Hilditch about his future after being left out of the Sri Lanka Test party, for which seemingly no one except himself thought he was a chance.

O'Keefe rang Hilditch, who did not reply. Hilditch is not big on returning phone calls but on this occasion you couldn't blame him. A chairman should never have to explain why a player who has been a part-timer for his state for five years is not playing for his country.

I don't want to build O'Keefe up into something he is not, however with a FC average of 25, he's entitled to feel a bit miffed being leapfrogged by the likes of Lyon and Beer.

Similarly, I almost spat a cup of tea all over the TV screen when I read Steve Smith was getting paid $1 million.

 

[GotSpin]

Has a decent pad in coogee

 

[Top_Cat]

Guess that means I don't have a Craddock then...

I'm guessing you love the Craddock, tbh.

 

[Top_Cat]

Can't say I disagree with Craddock on this one though. The only problem with his arguement is the precendents the panel have set - if they hadn't picked some people from the sky then I'd agree that O'Keefe should be making those phone calls.

However, the theory behind Crash's article is sound - the fact a guy who's played 14 first class games is rining the chairman to find out why he isn't there highlights the massive issues we have in our selection system at the moment.

Yes and no. In isolation the headline 'bloke who's played 14 FC games demanding explanation from chairman of selectors' sounds bad but he's toured with the Aussie side and played for Australia A so you'd imagine he's had a fair bit to do with Hilditch. Asking to have his ear, in that context, isn't too much to ask, for mine.

 

[Ruckus]

I'm guessing you love the Craddock, tbh.

Oh, the burnage...

On the O'keefe thing, I agree with Andre that there are some general problems with our selection process atm, but the reality is that other spin bowlers have been selected in a extremely whimsical way, and I think O'keefe has every right to question Hilditch about his non-selection given his superior qualifications relative to the other bowlers who have been chosen - i.e. its not O'keefe's fault that the selection of spinners in this country is a bit of a shambles atm...

 

[adub]

Yes and no. In isolation the headline 'bloke who's played 14 FC games demanding explanation from chairman of selectors' sounds bad but he's toured with the Aussie side and played for Australia A so you'd imagine he's had a fair bit to do with Hilditch. Asking to have his ear, in that context, isn't too much to ask, for mine.

Of course.

If Warne and McGill were the two selected spinners SOK wouldn't raise a peep and no one would expect him to and I'd bag him if he did.

BUT when you started last summer as the Australia A spinner and take as many wickets in one innings against England than all of our spinners could manage in 5 tests as well as scoring more than twice as many runs in one innings as the two specialist spinners could in 3 tests, well you might start to wonder. When you are a left arm orthodox spinner and the chairman of selectors specifically states that they are after left arm orthodox spinners especially to target one of the touring side's stars and have dropped a fairly solidly performing offie specifically for that reason, well you might think you have a shot. When you get said star tourist cheaply with a fine piece of flight bowling in said Aus A match and get overlooked for two numpties who between them could only manage to get him out once in 3 tests and that was only after he'd smashed 227, well you might start to think it was something other than cricket that was keeping you out of the team. When you are far and away the best performed spinner in the country with 39 wickets @ 25 and your career average of 24 make you the only spinner in the country with a first class average under 40 but you can't even get a shot in the Aus A 4-day games in Zimbabwe, but a guy with 4 Shield games and an average over 43 gets selected to the Test squad because he bowled well in some one dayers, well you might wonder if you have bad breath or something. When that test squad is heading to play Sri Lanka whose A side you have taken 7/35 against just over a year ago including getting current Sri Lankan test openers Paranavitana and Thirmanne and the left arm orthodox spinner selected has never taken a 4 fer let alone a Michelle in First Class cricket, well you'd be well within your rights to start to think wtf?

Craddock might not have heard of O'Keefe, but anyone paying attention to First Class cricket in Australia has, and whilst we all agree the spin stocks are thin, the one guy who has actually performed in any way shape or form is the one guy who has been constantly overlooked. Hohns may have had to wait 16 years for a test cap, that was because he was rubbish. But in today's environment his 37 average looks like Warne compared to the gimps we've been throwing baggy greens at. O'Keefe is not the second coming or anything like it, but he has done far more to earn a shot than any of the pie chuckers we've been gifting test caps to lately. In that context he has every right to know what Hilditch isn't seeing in him that he is seeing in Doherty, Krejza, Beer and Lyons. Then maybe he can explain it to the rest of us.

 

[Top_Cat]

To me, it's simpler than that and the take-home message for the selectors really should be this; O'Keefe is a bloke who, just about every game, finds a way to contribute. Can be relied on, no matter the situation, to take a 2/3-fer or score a handy 40-odd, sometimes going beyond that. Does all the little things right. Could be a valuble player in a team full of guns who, as they say in baseball, tend to 'swing for the fences'.

Trying to unearth a new Warne all the time means means you burn a bunch of blokes who aren't Warne but will still win you Tests.

 

[Ruckus]

^Yeah totally agree with that.

 

[howardj]

Of course.

If Warne and McGill were the two selected spinners SOK wouldn't raise a peep and no one would expect him to and I'd bag him if he did.

BUT when you started last summer as the Australia A spinner and take as many wickets in one innings against England than all of our spinners could manage in 5 tests as well as scoring more than twice as many runs in one innings as the two specialist spinners could in 3 tests, well you might start to wonder. When you are a left arm orthodox spinner and the chairman of selectors specifically states that they are after left arm orthodox spinners especially to target one of the touring side's stars and have dropped a fairly solidly performing offie specifically for that reason, well you might think you have a shot. When you get said star tourist cheaply with a fine piece of flight bowling in said Aus A match and get overlooked for two numpties who between them could only manage to get him out once in 3 tests and that was only after he'd smashed 227, well you might start to think it was something other than cricket that was keeping you out of the team. When you are far and away the best performed spinner in the country with 39 wickets @ 25 and your career average of 24 make you the only spinner in the country with a first class average under 40 but you can't even get a shot in the Aus A 4-day games in Zimbabwe, but a guy with 4 Shield games and an average over 43 gets selected to the Test squad because he bowled well in some one dayers, well you might wonder if you have bad breath or something. When that test squad is heading to play Sri Lanka whose A side you have taken 7/35 against just over a year ago including getting current Sri Lankan test openers Paranavitana and Thirmanne and the left arm orthodox spinner selected has never taken a 4 fer let alone a Michelle in First Class cricket, well you'd be well within your rights to start to think wtf?

Craddock might not have heard of O'Keefe, but anyone paying attention to First Class cricket in Australia has, and whilst we all agree the spin stocks are thin, the one guy who has actually performed in any way shape or form is the one guy who has been constantly overlooked. Hohns may have had to wait 16 years for a test cap, that was because he was rubbish. But in today's environment his 37 average looks like Warne compared to the gimps we've been throwing baggy greens at. O'Keefe is not the second coming or anything like it, but he has done far more to earn a shot than any of the pie chuckers we've been gifting test caps to lately. In that context he has every right to know what Hilditch isn't seeing in him that he is seeing in Doherty, Krejza, Beer and Lyons. Then maybe he can explain it to the rest of us.

Amen

 

[Ruckus]

Looking at adub's excellent analysis, I wonder what actually is the reason O'Keefe is being overlooked?

 

[Burgey]

Of course.

If Warne and McGill were the two selected spinners SOK wouldn't raise a peep and no one would expect him to and I'd bag him if he did.

BUT when you started last summer as the Australia A spinner and take as many wickets in one innings against England than all of our spinners could manage in 5 tests as well as scoring more than twice as many runs in one innings as the two specialist spinners could in 3 tests, well you might start to wonder. When you are a left arm orthodox spinner and the chairman of selectors specifically states that they are after left arm orthodox spinners especially to target one of the touring side's stars and have dropped a fairly solidly performing offie specifically for that reason, well you might think you have a shot. When you get said star tourist cheaply with a fine piece of flight bowling in said Aus A match and get overlooked for two numpties who between them could only manage to get him out once in 3 tests and that was only after he'd smashed 227, well you might start to think it was something other than cricket that was keeping you out of the team. When you are far and away the best performed spinner in the country with 39 wickets @ 25 and your career average of 24 make you the only spinner in the country with a first class average under 40 but you can't even get a shot in the Aus A 4-day games in Zimbabwe, but a guy with 4 Shield games and an average over 43 gets selected to the Test squad because he bowled well in some one dayers, well you might wonder if you have bad breath or something. When that test squad is heading to play Sri Lanka whose A side you have taken 7/35 against just over a year ago including getting current Sri Lankan test openers Paranavitana and Thirmanne and the left arm orthodox spinner selected has never taken a 4 fer let alone a Michelle in First Class cricket, well you'd be well within your rights to start to think wtf?

Craddock might not have heard of O'Keefe, but anyone paying attention to First Class cricket in Australia has, and whilst we all agree the spin stocks are thin, the one guy who has actually performed in any way shape or form is the one guy who has been constantly overlooked. Hohns may have had to wait 16 years for a test cap, that was because he was rubbish. But in today's environment his 37 average looks like Warne compared to the gimps we've been throwing baggy greens at. O'Keefe is not the second coming or anything like it, but he has done far more to earn a shot than any of the pie chuckers we've been gifting test caps to lately. In that context he has every right to know what Hilditch isn't seeing in him that he is seeing in Doherty, Krejza, Beer and Lyons. Then maybe he can explain it to the rest of us.

You and I are going to get along very, very well.

 

[Sylvester]

I would say any player that is in contention for a Test spot should be told what he needs to do to win selection. O'Keefe should have been a given, what on earth does he have to do to get a spot. As for Craddock article, it's funny how he uses the FC averages of Ferguson, Krejza, Doherty and co but completely ignores O'Keefe one.

 

[Top_Cat]

Looking at adub's excellent analysis, I wonder what actually is the reason O'Keefe is being overlooked?

There's a certain proportion of the Chappell family, let's say 100%, who only respect the abilities of guns. Consistent contributors are just taking the place of a bloke who could potentially, with the right encouragement and unquestioned consistent selection, no matter how dire the performances in the interim, win an Ashes Test.

 

[howardj]

I like Ian, don't couple him with Greg.

 

[Prince EWS]

Looking at adub's excellent analysis, I wonder what actually is the reason O'Keefe is being overlooked?

The team ceased to be picked on performance a while ago. If you watched O'Keefe, Krejza, Lyon, Beer, Smith etc all bowl three balls in the nets, you'd definitely think O'Keefe looked the one was the least potential. That's what the team (especially spinners) seems to be picked on at the moment. The ability to consistently bowl good balls, the ability to out-think batsmen and hell even just the 'basic' ability to take wickets more regularly for less runs than your competitors are all being overlooked.

It's a terrible selection policy but I can definitely see what's happening with it. It's not so much random as it just poor.

 

[howardj]

Get Warney to write an article about O'Keefe.

 

[howardj]

I would say any player that is in contention for a Test spot should be told what he needs to do to win selection. O'Keefe should have been a given, what on earth does he have to do to get a spot. As for Craddock article, it's funny how he uses the FC averages of Ferguson, Krejza, Doherty and co but completely ignores O'Keefe one.

Agreed.

As an aside, it's unfair to keep banging on about Fergie's average. It's far more nuanced than just sprouting as Crash does: "he averages 36 on the Billard table Adelaide Oval".

Truth be told, he's gone very well in the past two years in FC cricket. Moreover, he's acquitted himself just as well in his limited opportunities in the international theatre.

In my view, he's at least as deserving as guys like Hughes, Usman and Marsh.

 

[Andre]

Echoing the thoughts of everyone else here, great to see Adub on the forum, good to have another man involved in meaningful discussion.

Re: O'Keefe's selection. I reckon it has a fair bit to do with tradjectory he bowls at. At the risk of being simplistic, he's quite a round arm bowler who doesn't often get it above the batsman's eyeline nor get a huge amount of turn. Neither of these is a cardinal sin and he should be judged on his merits (numbers, as he's doing the business), but my gut feel is that our selection panel has decided that a spinner who doesn't either turn them square or float it above eye level isn't going to be successful at the next level.

It's very basic thinking, but sadly I think it is effectively where our selectors are at. Real shame we don't have a bowler or spinner on the panel these days to make some sort of sense of it all. I'd much rather someone who isn't particuarly asthetically pleasing and gets the job done than some of the guys we've thrown up of late.

 

[stephen]

Of course.

If Warne and McGill were the two selected spinners SOK wouldn't raise a peep and no one would expect him to and I'd bag him if he did.

BUT when you started last summer as the Australia A spinner and take as many wickets in one innings against England than all of our spinners could manage in 5 tests as well as scoring more than twice as many runs in one innings as the two specialist spinners could in 3 tests, well you might start to wonder. When you are a left arm orthodox spinner and the chairman of selectors specifically states that they are after left arm orthodox spinners especially to target one of the touring side's stars and have dropped a fairly solidly performing offie specifically for that reason, well you might think you have a shot. When you get said star tourist cheaply with a fine piece of flight bowling in said Aus A match and get overlooked for two numpties who between them could only manage to get him out once in 3 tests and that was only after he'd smashed 227, well you might start to think it was something other than cricket that was keeping you out of the team. When you are far and away the best performed spinner in the country with 39 wickets @ 25 and your career average of 24 make you the only spinner in the country with a first class average under 40 but you can't even get a shot in the Aus A 4-day games in Zimbabwe, but a guy with 4 Shield games and an average over 43 gets selected to the Test squad because he bowled well in some one dayers, well you might wonder if you have bad breath or something. When that test squad is heading to play Sri Lanka whose A side you have taken 7/35 against just over a year ago including getting current Sri Lankan test openers Paranavitana and Thirmanne and the left arm orthodox spinner selected has never taken a 4 fer let alone a Michelle in First Class cricket, well you'd be well within your rights to start to think wtf?

Craddock might not have heard of O'Keefe, but anyone paying attention to First Class cricket in Australia has, and whilst we all agree the spin stocks are thin, the one guy who has actually performed in any way shape or form is the one guy who has been constantly overlooked. Hohns may have had to wait 16 years for a test cap, that was because he was rubbish. But in today's environment his 37 average looks like Warne compared to the gimps we've been throwing baggy greens at. O'Keefe is not the second coming or anything like it, but he has done far more to earn a shot than any of the pie chuckers we've been gifting test caps to lately. In that context he has every right to know what Hilditch isn't seeing in him that he is seeing in Doherty, Krejza, Beer and Lyons. Then maybe he can explain it to the rest of us.

I totally agree with you.

The only thought that I have is that maybe the selectors have him pegged as the long term option and don't want him introduced into a losing culture. Terrible thinking if true, but it could be the case.