Dhoni V Prior (Tests)

[Jacknife]

He did look very much like a bowler coming off a long injury layoff tbh. Almost unrecognizable to his previous match (vs. SA in the WC). Didn't help that he was dragged through the entire Test and ODI series when it became increasingly clear that his game was in no fit state for international cricket and his mental state seemed to be degrading rapidly.

Spot on, I said it a number of times, Broad should have been no where near the England team, till he was back to his best after those bad injuries. He should have been playing for Notts while the series against SL was going on.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

TBH I think it was a fair comment from Furball. Saffa's attack might be the second best in the world but there isn't a contest for first place.

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Iain O'Brien's back this season, so that Kiwi line up of Chris Martin, O'Brien, Tim Southee and Dan Vettori would beg to differ. Plus, the depth! Kyle Mills... Murphy Su'a's been playing International Cricket again recently... Jeetan Patel... Is Jeff Wilson fit again yet?

 

[weldone]

Keeping all conditions etc. in mind, the difference between Steyn and Anderson is huuuuge (as much as the difference between Swann and Harris/Tahir maybe).

Morkel and Tremlett are comparable, but Morkel will get the nod because of his proven success for a higher period.

Same for Broad and SA's third pacer (Broad should be ahead).

Overall, comparable attacks, but England's attack should be just ahead because of the variety (read Swann).

 

[Cevno]

Kallis is a factor too, albeit a smaller one these days.

 

[weldone]

Kallis is a factor too, albeit a smaller one these days.

Yeah, forgot him. He shouldn't be too far behind Broad either.

Interesting.

 

[Athlai]

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Iain O'Brien's back this season, so that Kiwi line up of Chris Martin, O'Brien, Tim Southee and Dan Vettori would beg to differ. Plus, the depth! Kyle Mills... Murphy Su'a's been playing International Cricket again recently... Jeetan Patel... Is Jeff Wilson fit again yet?

You only added Jeets in there to make me agree with you.

It worked. ^ That guy knows his stuff.

 

[Furball]

Keeping all conditions etc. in mind, the difference between Steyn and Anderson is huuuuge (as much as the difference between Swann and Harris/Tahir maybe).

Morkel and Tremlett are comparable, but Morkel will get the nod because of his proven success for a higher period.

Same for Broad and SA's third pacer (Broad should be ahead).

Overall, comparable attacks, but England's attack should be just ahead because of the variety (read Swann).

The difference between Steyn and Anderson is nowhere near the difference between Swann and Harris. Not even close.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, ridiculous statement. And isn't it funny how if it's teams being ranked, weldone points to the official ones. But he throws that out of the window for player comparisons.

 

[akilana]

Keeping all conditions etc. in mind, the difference between Steyn and Anderson is huuuuge (as much as the difference between Swann and Harris/Tahir maybe).

Morkel and Tremlett are comparable, but Morkel will get the nod because of his proven success for a higher period.

Same for Broad and SA's third pacer (Broad should be ahead).

Overall, comparable attacks, but England's attack should be just ahead because of the variety (read Swann).

Agree with almost all of it.. but will take SA attack(though only two bowers) as it has proven in different conditions.. till the current English attack plays in sub continent and WI, its hard to judge how good they are. they were good in Australia so were SA..

of course expecting the usual suspects to make fun or post random pictures as replies..

 

[Cevno]

Awta plus the Kallis Factor. No way is the English attack "vastly superior" to SA.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I think it is. South Africa have the same problem India does. No bench strength.

 

[Furball]

Awta plus the Kallis Factor. No way is the English attack "vastly superior" to SA.

Steyn and Anderson have been bowling to pretty much the same standard for 2 years now. Steyn's number 1 but the difference these days is minimal.
Morkel's bowled well, as has Tremlett, they're pretty equal. Morkel has been doing it longer, which gives him a slight edge.
I'll take Broad or Bresnan before whoever South Africa pick as their 3rd seamer. The fact we have no idea who that is tells you how well they've replaced Ntini.
Swann is overwhelmingly superior to Harris, and Tahir is completely unproven at the top level.

Kallis is useful and is probably South Africa's 3rd best seamer, but since he's in the side for his batting I'm not factoring him in, as his main job is covering a pretty glaring weakness.

So that's two of the 4 where England are hugely superior, and 2 where South Africa are marginally ahead. In my book that gives England, quite comfortably, the best attack going. Look what happened to South Africa when Steyn had a bad series v Pakistan, and look at England when Anderson got injured at Cardiff. Huge difference.

That's not even taking England's bench strength into consideration. Name me one other Test side whos 2nd string attack has 200+ Test wickets between them.

 

[smash84]

for the third seamer Tsotsobe is pretty decent tbh........not too far behind Broad I should think

 

[Cevno]

Name me one other Test side whos 2nd string attack has 200+ Test wickets between them.

India.

Irfan,Mishra,Sreesanth and Munaf

 

[Cevno]

Steyn and Anderson have been bowling to pretty much the same standard for 2 years now. Steyn's number 1 but the difference these days is minimal.
Morkel's bowled well, as has Tremlett, they're pretty equal. Morkel has been doing it longer, which gives him a slight edge.
I'll take Broad or Bresnan before whoever South Africa pick as their 3rd seamer. The fact we have no idea who that is tells you how well they've replaced Ntini.
Swann is overwhelmingly superior to Harris, and Tahir is completely unproven at the top level.

Kallis is useful and is probably South Africa's 3rd best seamer, but since he's in the side for his batting I'm not factoring him in, as his main job is covering a pretty glaring weakness.

So that's two of the 4 where England are hugely superior, and 2 where South Africa are marginally ahead. In my book that gives England, quite comfortably, the best attack going. Look what happened to South Africa when Steyn had a bad series v Pakistan, and look at England when Anderson got injured at Cardiff. Huge difference.

Steyn has proven himself in various conditons and over time. He is clearly ahead of Anderson or Zaheer at the moment. Not minimal tbh.

Morkel is ahead of Tremlett as he has a much larger record and has again proven himself, specially in SA.

Tsotsobe is not that bad and is not that far behind Broad, who himself has been inconsistent at best.

Swann is clearly ahead of Harris i will give you that for sure.

But Kallis negates that last advantage somewhat and you can't just ignore him because he is a batsman, and ftr he is not better than Tsotsobe in his current state for the last few years at all.

Pretty close attacks,imo either way at the moment.

 

[centurymaker]

Steyn and Anderson have been bowling to pretty much the same standard for 2 years now. Steyn's number 1 but the difference these days is minimal.

1 year. steyn's been at the top since 2007, whereas anderson only just got there last year. (well not really steyn's still comfortably ahead )

Reliance ICC Player Rankings

Reliance ICC Player Rankings

 

[Furball]

Steyn has proven himself in various conditons and over time. He is clearly ahead of Anderson or Zaheer at the moment. Not minimal tbh.

Morkel is ahead of Tremlett as he has a much larger record and has again proven himself, specially in SA.

Tsotsobe is not that bad and is not that far behind Broad, who himself has been inconsistent at best.

Swann is clearly ahead of Harris i will give you that for sure.

But Kallis negates that last advantage somewhat and you can't just ignore him because he is a batsman, and ftr he is not better than Tsotsobe in his current state for the last few years at all.

Pretty close attacks,imo either way at the moment.

You've missed my Steyn/Anderson point - yes Steyn is the better bowler over the course of their careers, more proven in various conditions etc etc - I'm looking at who's better now. The answer is still Steyn, but it's not as clear cut as before. Since the start of the last series between South Africa and England, Steyn averages 22, Anderson 24. Both men had almost identical stats in 2010, averaging 21. That's a pretty minimal difference over quite an extended period of time. Anderson's also managed to go to Australia and have a better series than every quick bowler since Ambrose. That's not an easy feat.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Since the start of 2010 Steyn has averaged 20.5, and Jimmy about 22. Both really sodding good. Which is i think the point GingerFurball is trying to make. They've comfortably been the best for a while now. But i would obv. put Steyn ahead.

I also find it hard to believe people are saying its a hard call between Tsotsobe and Broad. The guy is knocking on Sammys door atm.

 

[centurymaker]

Since the start of 2010 Steyn has averaged 20.5, and Jimmy about 22. Both really sodding good. Which is i think the point GingerFurball is trying to make. They've comfortably been the best for a while now. But i would obv. put Steyn ahead.

I also find it hard to believe people are saying its a hard call between Tsotsobe and Broad. The guy is knocking on Sammys door atm.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

this is the main reason why his avg is near steyn's.

 

[Uppercut]

Steyn and Anderson have been bowling to pretty much the same standard for 2 years now. Steyn's number 1 but the difference these days is minimal.
Morkel's bowled well, as has Tremlett, they're pretty equal. Morkel has been doing it longer, which gives him a slight edge.
I'll take Broad or Bresnan before whoever South Africa pick as their 3rd seamer. The fact we have no idea who that is tells you how well they've replaced Ntini.
Swann is overwhelmingly superior to Harris, and Tahir is completely unproven at the top level.

Kallis is useful and is probably South Africa's 3rd best seamer, but since he's in the side for his batting I'm not factoring him in, as his main job is covering a pretty glaring weakness.

So that's two of the 4 where England are hugely superior, and 2 where South Africa are marginally ahead. In my book that gives England, quite comfortably, the best attack going. Look what happened to South Africa when Steyn had a bad series v Pakistan, and look at England when Anderson got injured at Cardiff. Huge difference.

That's not even taking England's bench strength into consideration. Name me one other Test side whos 2nd string attack has 200+ Test wickets between them.

Lol at your excuse for not factoring in Kallis.

Fair enough post otherwise. The South African attack doesn't look much worse on paper, if at all, but having watched the two attacks over the past year or so the difference in effectiveness is pretty obvious. South Africa struggle to maintain pressure when Steyn and Morkel aren't bowling but England just keep coming at you all day. The Indian batting lineup were able to negate South Africa to an extent just by seeing the best bowlers off- at one stage in the second test farming the strike to keep Steyn away from the tail because the difference in bowling quality from each end was so huge. Against England you just can't use a tactic like that. It's a pretty good demonstration of how the weakest member of a four-man attack is just as important as the strongest.