Dhoni V Prior (Tests)

[Spikey]

How could Dhoni's batting have been aggressive if India lost?

 

[Cevno]

Runs weren't an irrelevance in that situation because India could still have made South Africa bat again. It's an entirely different situation altogether.

But instead India lost by an innings. So it's a strange match to bring up in Dhoni's defence.

Losing by a innings ,was hardly the fault of his batting though, which he did in pretty good counterattacking style under pressure. Sehwag did the same in the last tour of AUS at Adelaide.

 

[GIMH]

If you lose by an innings, the batting and bowling are both at fault, clearly

 

[John Blaze]

India still wound up losing that Test by an innings.

South Africa also have a vastly inferior attack to England's.

South Africa have an inferior depth in bowling, but their starting line up is not 'vastly inferior' to England's in any way whatsoever. However, a lot does depend on Tahir.

 

[Spark]

You're assuming Tahir will be good without him having bowled a single ball in Test cricket?

 

[John Blaze]

You're assuming Tahir will be good without him having bowled a single ball in Test cricket?

Tahir or no Tahir, England's attack is not vastly superior to SA's especially taking into account SA have the best bowler in the world (by quite a while) and another top 5 bowler.

 

[smash84]

If you lose by an innings, the batting and bowling are both at fault, clearly

Not necessarily

 

[Furball]

vastly inferior? Lolwut?

South Africa can't sustain pressure built up by Steyn and Morkel with the new ball, because their 3rd seaming option and spinner are both rubbish.

England have Broad and Swann to turn to once Anderson and Tremlett are done in their first spells, that's an enormous difference.

 

[Cevno]

South Africa can't sustain pressure built up by Steyn and Morkel with the new ball, because their 3rd seaming option and spinner are both rubbish.

England have Broad and Swann to turn to once Anderson and Tremlett are done in their first spells, that's an enormous difference.

Steyn and Morkel > Anderson and Tremlett , and clearly in SA conditions.

Broad credit to him bowled wonderfully this match, but Tsotsobe wasn't that bad in that series to say it is a massive difference.

Swann is clearly better than Harris but don't think India are too overly bothered about any spinner in non turning conditions.

Plus then SA have Kallis who is clearly better than any 5th bowling option for England even if his Bowling has deteriorated in recent times.

You could argue that if Broad keeps it up consistently(which is a bit iffy to say the least), England may be better , but Vastly inferior is living in la la land.

 

[Cevno]

If you lose by an innings, the batting and bowling are both at fault, clearly

So are you telling me it was Dhoni's fault not to score a double hundred to save India, when he came in with 5 down and a about 250 run lead for SA with India having played a full innings extra?

 

[Spark]

Yeah I don't know about vastly inferior.

 

[John Blaze]

South Africa can't sustain pressure built up by Steyn and Morkel with the new ball, because their 3rd seaming option and spinner are both rubbish.

England have Broad and Swann to turn to once Anderson and Tremlett are done in their first spells, that's an enormous difference.

Broad had a great game, but his form coming into the match wasn't exactly terrific so it can't be assumed he will perform to the same level over a sustained period of time in the future. And Steyn >> Anderson, Morkel > Tremlett.

 

[GIMH]

Anderson>>>Morkel
Tremlett & Morkel - hard to say

 

[Prince EWS]

Anderson>>>Morkel
Tremlett & Morkel - hard to say

Gotta give it to Morkel at this stage due to the fact that he's maintained high performance for longer IMO, even though I think Tremlett is more likely to perform better over the next year or so.

 

[GIMH]

Fair enough, I think as new ball pairings they are pretty much even. We have a huge edge in the spin department and I think that's also the case in the third bowler department.

TBH I think it was a fair comment from Furball. Saffa's attack might be the second best in the world but there isn't a contest for first place.

 

[Prince EWS]

Fair enough, I think as new ball pairings they are pretty much even.

I think South Africa have a pretty distinct advantage in the new ball pairing, just for now anyway.

IMO though, high class Test cricket (moreso than domestic First Class cricket or any level below that) is a lot more about minimising weaknesses and forming a balanced eleven who can all contribute at any time than having all-time great specialists that can supposedly carry teams. This is especially true in the current era with no clear number one team. I'd much, much rather have Anderson, Tremlett, Broad and Swann than Steyn, Morkel, whothe****knows and Harris/debutant-Tahir. Give me four high class bowlers of different types over the best fast bowler in the world with a high class opening partner and **** all else any day.

 

[Jacknife]

I think South Africa have a pretty distinct advantage in the new ball pairing, just for now anyway.

IMO though, high class Test cricket (moreso than domestic First Class cricket or any level below that) is a lot more about minimising weaknesses and forming a balanced eleven who can all contribute at any time than having all-time great specialists that can supposedly carry teams. This is especially true in the current era with no clear number one team. I'd much, much rather have Anderson, Tremlett, Broad and Swann than Steyn, Morkel, whothe****knows and Harris/debutant-Tahir. Give me four high class bowlers of different types over the best fast bowler in the world with a high class opening partner and **** all else any day.

Yes agree with that. England's attack since Tremlett has come on the scene and especially if Broad can maintain this form, really has got some nice variation about it, which is a nice change because it isn't that long ago since they were all very similar.
Also I know it's been mentioned before but it's great that if one bowler goes down, a almost like for like is waiting in the wings, Finn for tremmers, Bresnan for Jimmy, Onions for Broad and a few others.

 

[Flem274*]

South Africa can't sustain pressure built up by Steyn and Morkel with the new ball, because their 3rd seaming option and spinner are both rubbish.

England have Broad and Swann to turn to once Anderson and Tremlett are done in their first spells, that's an enormous difference.

The same Broad who many thought should be dropped prior to the previous test?

I'll believe he's turned a corner when he backs last match up. He's always been capable of the odd awesome performance, but then reverts to being innocuous.

Steyn and Morkel are a better pair than Anderson and Tremlett as of right now imo, even though I hate Morkel and love Tremlett.

England's attack has greater depth and would be the one I would choose, but the attack with the best bowler in the world accompanied with a world class quickie can't be discounted.

Swann is the proven trump card until we see more of Tremlett/Tahir and co. who haven't played much/at all yet.

 

[GIMH]

The same Broad who many thought should be dropped prior to the previous test?

I'll believe he's turned a corner when he backs last match up. He's always been capable of the odd awesome performance, but then reverts to being innocuous.
.

This isn't really true, though. After The Oval 09, Broad went on to have some very good moments in South Africa, and then bowled really well all last summer. In the Ashes, he hadn't taken many wickets but absolutely nobody was questioning his place before he got injured, in fact it was felt to be a blow to our chances.

The bottom line is he was out of form during the Sri Lanka series and woefully so, and that has led people to forget a lot of the good he's done in the past two years.

Is he the finished article? No. But he's had more than just a couple of performances.

 

[Spark]

He did look very much like a bowler coming off a long injury layoff tbh. Almost unrecognizable to his previous match (vs. SA in the WC). Didn't help that he was dragged through the entire Test and ODI series when it became increasingly clear that his game was in no fit state for international cricket and his mental state seemed to be degrading rapidly.