*Official* First Test at Lord's

[GIMH]

How many people are England are 100% English? Given that many on these forums don't seem to accept the likes of Strauss and Prior as our own, not many. It's a multicultural society. To suggest that we should not allow people who have moved here and lived here for X years to represent the country is dangerous and at odds with every other facet of acceptable conduct towards immigration.

I mean where does it stop? I've said it many times but Pietersen and Trott would have been eligible to play for England in football from birth, provided they had a passport & citizenship, which given their parentage would be no problem. Yet people think it's a 'disgrace'.

Should Monty Panesar have not played for us? I heard a few racists claim he wasn't English, because he doesn't 'look English'. Nasser Hussain wasn't born here, was that theft?

Yeah sure, Morgan's deal is a bit different. But he wanted to play his cricket here, and lived here long enough to qualify. Which board's money feeds the system that developed him?

There is a dangerous attitude towards the 'non-English' players that we have in our team, and I'm just glad that they don't come from our own supporters. Suggests the country's tolerance has improved a lot during in my lifetime tbh.

 

[Anku31]

It's quite clear that neither of you are aware as to how closely Irish cricket is linked to the county system, how the game is progressing or what has been done lately to improve the Irish national side - such as its withdrawal from the CB40 competition.

The issue is also further complicated by European Union eligibility laws to work here, and Ireland's own status within the ICC. I'm not going to debate this any further.

But I am sure there's nothing that can't be cured by ECB.

 

[G.I.Joe]

No doubt you'll get infracted for that.

Did you get infracted for having a needless go at the poster making a perfectly innocuous comment?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Foreigners?!??!?!?

Oh noooooooeees

More seriously, if you can't see the difference between playing for the country in which you live for years, ply your trade and gives the only route to the top level and playing for a club, we're done with this conversation.

What's more, it would be illegal under European (and probably British law) if the ECB were to discriminate against British citizens just because they hadn't been born in Britain. Furthermore, even if they're not British, but their European, the discrimination still wouldn't be allowed under European law. One could argue whether they're the best candidates for the job, but given that Trott averages over 60, Pietersen not far off 50, I think that's an argument the ECB would lose, personally.

 

[PhoenixFire]

How many people are England are 100% English? Given that many on these forums don't seem to accept the likes of Strauss and Prior as our own, not many. It's a multicultural society. To suggest that we should not allow people who have moved here and lived here for X years to represent the country is dangerous and at odds with every other facet of acceptable conduct towards immigration.

I mean where does it stop? I've said it many times but Pietersen and Trott would have been eligible to play for England in football from birth, provided they had a passport & citizenship, which given their parentage would be no problem. Yet people think it's a 'disgrace'.

Should Monty Panesar have not played for us? I heard a few racists claim he wasn't English, because he doesn't 'look English'. Nasser Hussain wasn't born here, was that theft?

Yeah sure, Morgan's deal is a bit different. But he wanted to play his cricket here, and lived here long enough to qualify. Which board's money feeds the system that developed him?

There is a dangerous attitude towards the 'non-English' players that we have in our team, and I'm just glad that they don't come from our own supporters. Suggests the country's tolerance has improved a lot during in my lifetime tbh.

 

[Anku31]

How many people are England are 100% English? Given that many on these forums don't seem to accept the likes of Strauss and Prior as our own, not many. It's a multicultural society. To suggest that we should not allow people who have moved here and lived here for X years to represent the country is dangerous and at odds with every other facet of acceptable conduct towards immigration.

I mean where does it stop? I've said it many times but Pietersen and Trott would have been eligible to play for England in football from birth, provided they had a passport & citizenship, which given their parentage would be no problem. Yet people think it's a 'disgrace'.

Should Monty Panesar have not played for us? I heard a few racists claim he wasn't English, because he doesn't 'look English'. Nasser Hussain wasn't born here, was that theft?

Yeah sure, Morgan's deal is a bit different. But he wanted to play his cricket here, and lived here long enough to qualify. Which board's money feeds the system that developed him?

There is a dangerous attitude towards the 'non-English' players that we have in our team, and I'm just glad that they don't come from our own supporters. Suggests the country's tolerance has improved a lot during in my lifetime tbh.

Personally,I am not against people living in a country,qualifying & then playing.I don't have any problems with the Trotts & Pietersens.But likes of Morgan is what I am afraid of.South Africa is a developed country in terms of Cricket & it wont affect them much even if 4-5 of their good domestic players migrate.They have enough resources & moreover,it depends on individuals.It's their own life & decisions.
But what about Ireland?? They are a developing Cricket nation.They can't afford to loose players like this.This is my concern.And this should be ECB's too.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Foreigners?!??!?!?

Oh noooooooeees

More seriously, if you can't see the difference between playing for the country in which you live for years, ply your trade and gives the only route to the top level and playing for a club, we're done with this conversation.

Key here, one feels. Cricket no different to any other profession, IMO.

 

[hazsa19]

Question. Why are we opting for the heavy roller, knowing we've got to take another 10 wickets?

 

[Howe_zat]

Because the Indians will roller it anyway, so we might as well take every way we can to get an extra 20 or so runs to play with.

 

[GIMH]

They just compared Broad's pitch map here and at the Rose Bowl. Bloody hell.

 

[Howe_zat]

10.30am Hello everybody, and welcome to day four of the first Test between England and India at Lord's. Day three gave a timely reminder of some of the virtues of Test cricket, chiefly through Stuart Broad's probing bowling and Rahul Dravid's obdurate century. And the sun has shone on all three days. Pleasingly, the weather is set fair today too. I'm Liam Brickhill, and I'll be bringing you live ball-by-ball commentary for the first hour or so.

Liam Brickhill is a howardj multi and I claim etc etc

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

But what about Ireland?? They are a developing Cricket nation.They can't afford to loose players like this.This is my concern.And this should be ECB's too.

Well, you need to take this up with the erstwhile Eoin Morgan. It's his choice to play for England and to forsake Ireland to be perfectly honest. He took the risk of playing a game for England, not being good enough for a permanent spot and then having to wait out 4 (I think) years like Ed Joyce to play for Ireland again.

 

[oitoitoi]

How many people are England are 100% English? Given that many on these forums don't seem to accept the likes of Strauss and Prior as our own, not many. It's a multicultural society. To suggest that we should not allow people who have moved here and lived here for X years to represent the country is dangerous and at odds with every other facet of acceptable conduct towards immigration.

I mean where does it stop? I've said it many times but Pietersen and Trott would have been eligible to play for England in football from birth, provided they had a passport & citizenship, which given their parentage would be no problem. Yet people think it's a 'disgrace'.

Should Monty Panesar have not played for us? I heard a few racists claim he wasn't English, because he doesn't 'look English'. Nasser Hussain wasn't born here, was that theft?

I've no issue with Strauss or Prior, and I understand your point, however my problem with Pietersen and particularly Trott is that they were trained in South Africa, not England, so their success isn't really a reflection of the strength of English cricket. My problem with Morgan is that he played 30+ games for Ireland, then switched very easily to England, and can't really switch back to Ireland which is atrocious double standards IMO, not to mention leaving a rather sour taste in the mouth regarding the young man's loyalties. You don't really see this situation in football, (I think national sides have generally even stopped poaching african players) where you have players from all over the world playing in European leagues.

Suggests the country's tolerance has improved a lot during in my lifetime tbh.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when I almost got stabbed last year.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when I almost got stabbed last year.

I'm honestly sorry to hear that but I don't think it means things haven't improved. There are still scumbags; I referenced racists in my previous post as well. But the attitude towards people like yourself (assuming you are of Indian origin, apologies if I have this wrong) is definitely better than when I was in school.

 

[hazsa19]

Because the Indians will roller it anyway, so we might as well take every way we can to get an extra 20 or so runs to play with.

There's nothing we can do to stop them rolling it, but rolling it twice is worse than rolling it once?

 

[GIMH]

As for Trott and Pietersen, I understand where people are coming from, but let's not pretend they stepped off the plane as the finished article.

 

[Howe_zat]

I've no issue with Strauss or Prior, and I understand your point, however my problem with Pietersen and particularly Trott is that they were trained in South Africa, not England, so their success isn't really a reflection of the strength of English cricket. My problem with Morgan is that he played 30+ games for Ireland, then switched very easily to England, and can't really switch back to Ireland which is atrocious double standards IMO, not to mention leaving a rather sour taste in the mouth regarding the young man's loyalties. You don't really see this situation in football, (I think national sides have generally even stopped poaching african players) where you have players from all over the world playing in European leagues.

Something of a myth that KP got the airport as a Test cricketer. He couldn't get into his domestic side, remember? Not to mention he was an off-spinner, or a bowling allrounder at least, when he left Natal. Owes a lot to Hampshire for where he is now.

Trott had played youth cricket for SA, yes, but he'd come over here as a 21-year old with half a first class season behind him - and he started out in Warks' 2nd XI. And as has been pointed out by those detailing his career here, he very slowly moved from an ordinary county cricketer to a Test player over seven years on the circuit.

So while I understand that they weren't entirely a product of the English system, they can owe a fair bit of their development to it as well. Not to mention that neither of them ever played franchise cricket, which is currently relied on to develop this generation of South African national cricketers.

 

[Bun]

It's quite clear that neither of you are aware as to how closely Irish cricket is linked to the county system, how the game is progressing or what has been done lately to improve the Irish national side - such as its withdrawal from the CB40 competition.

The issue is also further complicated by European Union eligibility laws to work here, and Ireland's own status within the ICC. I'm not going to debate this any further.

mate, if ireland is so closely linked to english somestic structure, why not embrace that and stop ireland being considered as a seperate international team?

I am appreciative of ireland withdrawing from the od tournament, but that's just token if morgans are going to happen in future. mate, if pakistani seamers were allowed to play in india, I am damn sure in a few yrs time, they'll be making up most of our stocks. they will dominate our domestic ranks, and it will be just a matter of them achieving the qualification criteria.

but will that be fair? on pakistani cricket? on cricket as whole? I am not sure.

stating EU laws imho is just an excuse. more than silly udrs, I believe this is something icc andd world cricket needs to address to prevent it from being an old boys club.

 

[Athlai]

mate, if ireland is so closely linked to english somestic structure, why not embrace that and stop ireland being considered as a seperate international team?

I am appreciative of ireland withdrawing from the od tournament, but that's just token if morgans are going to happen in future. mate, if pakistani seamers were allowed to play in india, I am damn sure in a few yrs time, they'll be making up most of our stocks. they will dominate our domestic ranks, and it will be just a matter of them achieving the qualification criteria.

but will that be fair? on pakistani cricket? on cricket as whole? I am not sure.

stating EU laws imho is just an excuse. more than silly udrs, I believe this is something icc andd world cricket needs to address to prevent it from being an old boys club.

Ignorance.

 

[GIMH]

Stating EU laws isn't just an excuse. They are called laws for a reason.