Daryl Harper withdraws from Dominica test

[GIMH]

Uncanny lack of replies to that post. Should make a thread about it and see if it goes 25 pages praising him for his maturity and for handling bad decisions with grace.

Next time someone moans about Stu Broad not appealing, I'll bring up a time he did appeal. That'll shut the moral high ground up

And hb, the 'As long as they aren't Indian' post is really poor. Very disappointing.

 

[Son Of Coco]

ok, so we have a situation when a player KNOWS he has not edged the ball on the way to the keeper but is given out, and the replays are inconclusive.. Generally a player knows the best reg. these edges but due to pictures not being great (and trust me, we have even seen run outs given by 3rd umpire on the benefit of the doubt, it looks out but can't give it out based on that evidence sorta deal)... How is that the right decision and that will end up costing a review too... How will the player know how well the camera has caught the pictures? And what if there was no hot spot as it is "expensive"???

So you think the best option is to refuse the UDRS and wait until it's perfect (which it probably never will be)?

Sorry, but I don't think there's any point in having a whinge about umpiring decisions when, to all intents and purposes, your board and the team have refused to embrace a system that at least gives you a chance of avoiding the bad ones.

If I didn't know better I'd start to think the concern with implementing the UDRS was that it would take the ability to have a good whinge out of the equation most of the time.

 

[hang on]

there are some interesting philosophical riffs here, something that those who have studied ethics and applied philosophy (and logic and symmetry, i would imagine) might be able to throw light on...

about whether it is actually a case of AND/OR i.e you can want good umpiring and the udrs but not doubting the UDRS does not preclude wanting or deserving good umpiring. Or does it actually undermine one's moral right to good umpiring? am sure there are analogies out there from law and society that some of the more lawerly can bring up. also interesting issues present connected to asymmetries of information and moral hazards (the economists can jump in, too!) in that the presence of UDRS could well lower the quality of umpiring in general, similar to the way the presence of helmets has made batsmen's technique against the shortball more suspect than in the past as a consequence of being less risk averse due to the protection afforded by the helmet.

i am doing a terrible job of explaining what i mean and so will shut up. but perhaps a more academic turn to this whole debate might be fun?! fingers crossed.

 

[biased indian]

so since DRS is available ..any one can umpire in test matches ?????

Don't think we need neutral umpires or for that matter an elite panel have DRS and ask some one at ground to do the duty..DRS will take care of very thing..we can have lucky draw from spectators for a chance to umpire.. DRS is good and we need it but it doesn't mean that we can stop having good umpires

in fact if we need more tauffel and dar so we have less DRS..that the best way forward ..than having more harper and de silva and relying on DRS on every third appeal

 

[Son Of Coco]

there are some interesting philosophical riffs here, something that those who have studied ethics and applied philosophy (and logic and symmetry, i would imagine) might be able to throw light on...

about whether it is actually a case of AND/OR i.e you can want good umpiring and the udrs but not doubting the UDRS does not preclude wanting or deserving good umpiring. Or does it actually undermine one's moral right to good umpiring? am sure there are analogies out there from law and society that some of the more lawerly can bring up. also interesting issues present connected to asymmetries of information and moral hazards (the economists can jump in, too!) in that the presence of UDRS could well lower the quality of umpiring in general, similar to the way the presence of helmets has made batsmen's technique against the shortball more suspect than in the past as a consequence of being less risk averse due to the protection afforded by the helmet.

i am doing a terrible job of explaining what i mean and so will shut up. but perhaps a more academic turn to this whole debate might be fun?! fingers crossed.

You definitely should be able to have good umpiring regardless of whether the UDRS is in place or not...but umpires are human. They always have made mistakes and they always will. The UDRS goes some way to helping fix any mistakes.

I don't think the presence of the UDRS will lower umpiring standards too much though, I doubt any of the umpires would want to continually be shown up as wrong. If anything, it might help them make correct decisions based on what they've learned from watching Hawkeye and finding out more about the behaviour of the ball off the wicket for LBWs etc.

I remember a few occasions recently where commentators have been surprised by decisions Hawkeye has shown to be not out when they were convinced otherwise. Bearing in mind Hawkeye isn't perfect too I suppose.

 

[Daemon]

Daemon, sorry mate. I thought that's what you meant til Cevno agreed with you. My bad.

Iz k

 

[Cevno]

This thread has now started going round and round in circles.

Someone to post enlarged text to get it locked

 

[G.I.Joe]

nightprowler10 is Muttiah Muralitharan.

Discuss.

 

[Daemon]

Who says he's the first, the tenth or the five hundredth? The question is whether he should have said it.

This. I've said it before as well, it doesn't matter whether people in the past have got away with it or not, it doesn't make it any more right.

 

[BoyBrumby]

As far as I'm concerned, Dhoni's position is that he wants poor umpiring decisions. I'm sure he doesn't see it like that at all, but I do, so I have no sympathy for him when it disadvantages his team and I'm particularly grated if he complains.

This is essentially the crucial point.

Players, captains and managers whinging about match officials is endemic in all team sports I pay even the vaguest notice of; in any given Premiership weekend some manager will bemoan how a penalty, a non-award of the same or a mildly contentious offside has cost his team, etc. After the 2003 rugby union world cup final (which his team won) Sir Clive Woodward (correctly) suggested weak refereeing of the scrum by Andre Watson had nearly cost his team the win.

However, what unites most who complain about the standard of officiating is that they want more help for the chaps who make the on-field calls, not less. In Dhoni's case there is a system that can be used to correct some of the errors the standing umpires make, but his board, for their own reasons, oppose(d) it. If you willingly choose to blindfold your keeper is it fair to complain that he can't see the ball?

Any obfuscating comparisons to Stuart "His Dad's a Match Referre, You Know" Broad's massively irriating refusal to appeal for LBWs or Ricky Ponting's serial umpire abusing (both of which are/were, frankly, disgraceful) are from the "two wrongs make a right" school.

 

[honestbharani]

Next time someone moans about Stu Broad not appealing, I'll bring up a time he did appeal. That'll shut the moral high ground up

And hb, the 'As long as they aren't Indian' post is really poor. Very disappointing.

And Marcuss' reply to that WASN'T disappointing? ????

 

[Cevno]

Awta.

But that or the Everyone is against us pictures or Gotspin saying that sarcastically almost every page that India get away with everything or something similar ,won't seem dissapointing to GIMH

 

[GIMH]

This is essentially the crucial point.

Players, captains and managers whinging about match officials is endemic in all team sports I pay even the vaguest notice of; in any given Premiership weekend some manager will bemoan how a penalty, a non-award of the same or a mildly contentious offside has cost his team, etc. After the 2003 rugby union world cup final (which his team won) Sir Clive Woodward (correctly) suggested weak refereeing of the scrum by Andre Watson had nearly cost his team the win.

However, what unites most who complain about the standard of officiating is that they want more help for the chaps who make the on-field calls, not less. In Dhoni's case there is a system that can be used to correct some of the errors the standing umpires make, but his board, for their own reasons, oppose(d) it. If you willingly choose to blindfold your keeper is it fair to complain that he can't see the ball?

Any obfuscating comparisons to Stuart "His Dad's a Match Referre, You Know" Broad's massively irriating refusal to appeal for LBWs or Ricky Ponting's serial umpire abusing (both of which are/were, frankly, disgraceful) are from the "two wrongs make a right" school.

[/thread]

 

[GIMH]

Awta.

But that or the Everyone is against us pictures or Gotspin saying that sarcastically almost every page that India get away with everything ,won't seem dissapointing to GIMH

Wrong again.

Hb played the race/nationality card. Marcuss called him on it.

 

[zaremba]

This is essentially the crucial point.

Players, captains and managers whinging about match officials is endemic in all team sports I pay even the vaguest notice of; in any given Premiership weekend some manager will bemoan how a penalty, a non-award of the same or a mildly contentious offside has cost his team, etc. After the 2003 rugby union world cup final (which his team won) Sir Clive Woodward (correctly) suggested weak refereeing of the scrum by Andre Watson had nearly cost his team the win.

However, what unites most who complain about the standard of officiating is that they want more help for the chaps who make the on-field calls, not less. In Dhoni's case there is a system that can be used to correct some of the errors the standing umpires make, but his board, for their own reasons, oppose(d) it. If you willingly choose to blindfold your keeper is it fair to complain that he can't see the ball?

Any obfuscating comparisons to Stuart "His Dad's a Match Referre, You Know" Broad's massively irriating refusal to appeal for LBWs or Ricky Ponting's serial umpire abusing (both of which are/were, frankly, disgraceful) are from the "two wrongs make a right" school.

 

[Cevno]

That point has been made like 4848584845 times in the thread already ,tbf and been responded by 4848584845 different points on why that is not true and opposite examples involving England too.

Only way that is going to lead to end of thread is if you enlarge it enough

 

[G.I.Joe]

nightprowler10 is Muttiah Muralitharan.

Discuss.

AWTProposition.

The resemblance is uncanny.

 

[Cevno]

Wrong again.

Hb played the race/nationality card. Marcuss called him on it.

So it is fine to accuse Indians sarcastically of getting away with everything ,but you cannot claim the opposite?

Another example of you wanting to have the cake and eat it too

 

[Cevno]

AWTProposition.

The resemblance is uncanny.

Proof?

 

[zaremba]

That point has been made like 4848584845 times in the thread already ,tbf and been responded by 4848584845 different points on why that is not true and opposite examples involving England too.

which point?