Are England The Real Deal?

[Cevno]

Not too much to choose between the Indian and SL batting line-ups in my view. I don't think that I'd be tempted to describe a line-up which includes Dilshan, Sangakkara, Samaraweera and Jayawardene "weak" by comparison with anyone.

I think Zaremba you are getting carried away in the spirit and competitiveness of the thread.

 

[Top_Cat]

Not optimistic about India's chances in England. They're bowling isn't good enough to open the (few) cracks in the English line-up whereas England's is good enough to do the inverse. You can win in England with a good bowling line-up and ordinary batting but you'll only draw games if your strengths are the opposite.

 

[Cevno]

India has been doing better in England than any other NON SC country if you look at the history with even more mediocre bowlers and lesser batsman than they have now.

Indian swing bowlers become more threatening when the conditions help them and generally both Indian bowlers and Batsman have not had much trouble adapting to English conditions.

To just give recent examples -

RP singh had a pretty good series last time round in England in support of Zaheer and he is as ordinary as it gets.

Unadkat tore it apart on the India A tour last year to England and he can't even take consistent domestic wickets in India at the moment.

Besides -

Zaheer = Anderson
Swann = Harbhajan/Mishra (Swan > Harbhajan but it is negated by Indian batsman being better players of spin)

Broad is not much better in terms of Consistency than Ishant or Sreesanth to be honest. Their records are similar too despite Broad playing home matches in England.


The only real advantage is the fourth bowler for England really in terms of bowling Tremlett.
This is crucial but it can be narrowed down say if any Indian bowler does what RP singh did on the last tour and adapts to the conditions really well and swings it.
Praveen Kumar could be handy in England and Sreesanth being a Swing bowler could blow hot and cold in patches.

 

[Cevno]

Not optimistic about India's chances in England. They're bowling isn't good enough to open the (few) cracks in the English line-up whereas England's is good enough to do the inverse. You can win in England with a good bowling line-up and ordinary batting but you'll only draw games if your strengths are the opposite.

Same was said about India in South Africa tbh.

And India came closer than them to winning the series at the end.

 

[Jacknife]

I think Zaremba you are getting carried away in the spirit and competitiveness of the thread.

Why is he, his point still stands, when he says 'I don't think that I'd be tempted to describe a line-up which includes Dilshan, Sangakkara, Samaraweera and Jayawardene "weak" by comparison with anyone.'

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah but South Africa are perenially over-rated, especially at home. Beating England at home with three blokes at world-class form with the bat and a bowling attack like that, big ask for India to even be competitive. The Indian bowlers aren't good enough to exploit Cook's play outside off-stump nor Trott's against short ones and both Tremlett and Anderson are set to make a mess of everyone bar Sachin and possibly Laxman.

Don't get me wrong, if they take another series off England, it'll be brilliant and all credit due but that's precisely because of the mountainous task ahead of them.

 

[Cevno]

Why is he, his point still stands, when he says 'I don't think that I'd be tempted to describe a line-up which includes Dilshan, Sangakkara, Samaraweera and Jayawardene "weak" by comparison with anyone.'

It's Certainly weaker than a batting lineup that goes Gambhir ,Sehwag ,Dravid, Tendulkar,Laxman, Pujara/Kohli/badrinath,Dhoni .

"Not too much to choose between the Indian and SL batting line-ups in my view." To say this is completely weird tbh.

 

[Cevno]

I wasn't joking. Book in a 3-0 or 3-1 win for England.

Wanna have a bet?

 

[Jacknife]

It's Certainly weaker than a batting lineup that goes Gambhir ,Sehwag ,Dravid, Tendulkar,Laxman, Pujara/Kohli/badrinath,Dhoni .

"Not too much to choose between the Indian and SL batting line-ups in my view." To say this is completely weird tbh.

There isn't too much imo obviously the Indians line up is better but I wouldn't go saying, there's a world of difference between the two.

 

[Cevno]

There isn't too much imo obviously the Indians line up is better but I wouldn't go saying, there's a world of difference between the two.

There is tbh, specially in English conditions.

 

[Cevno]

Yeah but South Africa are perenially over-rated, especially at home. Beating England at home with three blokes at world-class form with the bat and a bowling attack like that, big ask for India to even be competitive. The Indian bowlers aren't good enough to exploit Cook's play outside off-stump nor Trott's against short ones and both Tremlett and Anderson are set to make a mess of everyone bar Sachin and possibly Laxman.

Don't get me wrong, if they take another series off England, it'll be brilliant and all credit due but that's precisely because of the mountainous task ahead of them.

Zaheer will give all of the England top 3 their fair share of problems.

As for the England bowling attack, really there biggest test will come in this series.

Anderson will be constant trouble.
Tremlett will probably trouble on different occasions too.
But can't see Swann running through India or Broad against this Indian lineup.
Dunno where they want to fit Bresnan as some were implying?

In Steyn and Morkel SA had a more consistent and potent combination as well as better bowling conditions too.
Plus had Kallis,Amla and AB devilliers in form.
Don't know where the talk of England having a decidely better batting lineup than SA is coming from too?

Also, England being Dravid's favorite hunting ground is a good occasion for him to bounce back too.

It will be a pretty even series,imo.

 

[Spark]

I don't think Zaheer will have the wood over Trott.

 

[Cevno]

I don't think Zaheer will have the wood over Trott.

Won't dominate him like he can potentially with Strauss ,but can see Trott getting LBW to Zaheer on a couple of occasions.

Some balls going straight with the angle accross and then one coming back in.
Like Welegedera did last match.

 

[Bun]

Not too much to choose between the Indian and SL batting line-ups in my view. I don't think that I'd be tempted to describe a line-up which includes Dilshan, Sangakkara, Samaraweera and Jayawardene "weak" by comparison with anyone.

dwta.

before the series began, nobody expected dilshan to put up the show he did. and sanga, jaya, and samara haven't exactly set it on fire either.

without doubt, sanga and jaya are class batsmen, but questions do remain of their ability to remain versatile outside home.

indian batting, by comparison is on a different planet.

 

[Spark]

Won't dominate him like he can potentially with Strauss ,but can see Trott getting LBW to Zaheer on a couple of occasions.

Some balls going straight with the angle accross and then one coming back in.
Like Welegedera did last match.

I thought it was Lakmal who got him LBW, playing all round a dead straight one?

 

[Bun]

haha bring in on the chest thumping..... some epic pwnage going to happen in the next two months.

I am clueless as to how easily people forget that we've been retaining the draw since a decade and half, and unlike before, this is a genuine world no.1 side, and easily the strongest team to visit ol' blighty in what I can remember.

am not going to go with the theme and predict a brownwash or anything, but pretty sure we're going to win this, or at worst draw and retain the cup should we play at atleast 90 per cent of our potential, regardless of andy's menace in store. this bowling lineup, except for anderson, doesn't invoke any fear or danger in the seasoned indian batsmen. and we managed to hold a much stronger SA at home.



bring it on! this and the down under series should cement our no.1 status in perception as well.

 

[GotSpin]

Carn England

 

[Shri]

Ishant to do better than Broad with the ball in this series. Calling it before anyone else.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

this bowling lineup, except for anderson, doesn't invoke any fear or danger in the seasoned indian batsmen. and we managed to hold a much stronger SA at home.

I am not too sure about the much stronger part. Granted Steyn is an ATG bowler as he showed in that series, bowling magnificently. Morkel bowled very well in the first test, but he's a bit of a one-dimensional bowler. If the batsmen get used to his steepling bounce and pace, he doesn't really strike me as a bloke who has a plan B to blast them out.

They did not have a third seamer of note. Tsotosobe, IMHO, is not a test-class bowler and Tendulkar, Laxman and co. were never expected to be fazed by him. And as for the South African "spinner", the less said the better.

This English attack of Anderson-Tremlett-Swann-(Shehzad/Finn/Broad) would be much more challenging. Not to mention the batting line-up is significantly stronger than the one India encountered in their previous tour.

If India can win/draw this series, that would be their biggest achievement in a while. A brownwash or a whitewash is out of the question, given that there isn't too much to choose between the sides.

I'd predict: English win - 40%, Indian win - 30%, Shared honours - 30%.

 

[Cevno]

I thought it was Lakmal who got him LBW, playing all round a dead straight one?

Yep. You are right.
Point still stands though.