A.F.L. Thread II

[benchmark00]

Definitely, but he's top 3-5 so it doesn't really affect the Thomas debate.

Good point re: the tag.

I'd have my top 5 (in no order) as:

Judd
Ablett
Franklin
Pendlebury
Joel Selwood

Sandilands pretty stiff, probably belongs in there ahead of one of the midfielders. Just can't decide who.

Chapman also pushing.

There is no way Goodes belongs in that company. He goes missing everytime he has a direct opponent. Like clockwork.

And what is that list based on? Just this years form?

 

[benchmark00]

Got you before editing it seems...

 

[Jono]

Tbf I edited out my post and took out Goodes immediately after I posted when I thought again, but he's still top 10-15.

And it's based on the last 2 years really. Form is the wrong word though.

 

[benchmark00]

I wouldn't have Goodes in the top 20 or so.

Brown and Riewoldt both top five.

 

[Jono]

That's such a ridiculous statement. Your hatred of Sydney is blinding you. Anyway won't be able to debate that so will let that go.

Brown is no longer top 5, not yet anyway. Riewoldt is arguable but it's hard to still have him there when he's suffered this year when the delivery got significantly worse than its been in the past.

 

[benchmark00]

Has nothing to do with my hatred for Sydney. O'Keefe is way better than Goodes. Actually gets a kick when he has an opponent.

Didn't you say this is over the last two years?

 

[Jono]

Wow, O'Keefe "way better" than Goodes? **** me dead that's crazy.

O'Keefe has been shut down this year plenty of times, and doesn't have even close to the impact in the important points of matches that Goodes has. Good player don't get me wrong, but Jesus.

I just meant over 2010 and 2011. Happy to change the period or whatever, and this wasn't meant to be too strict a discussion.

Franklin this year has been that good that it almost gets him in despite a not so great 2010.

 

[benchmark00]

Wow, O'Keefe "way better" than Goodes? **** me dead that's crazy.

O'Keefe has been shut down this year plenty of times, and doesn't have even close to the impact in the important points of matches that Goodes has. Good player don't get me wrong, but Jesus.

I just meant over 2010 and 2011. Happy to change the period or whatever, and this wasn't meant to be too strict a discussion.

Franklin this year has been that good that it almost gets him in despite a not so great 2010.

Goodes honestly hardly ever ever has any impact when he has a tight opponent. He looks a million dollars when he plays on a wing and gets no attention, but all half decent footballers should also. I'm force fed Sydney games so have watched nearly all their games over the past few years, O'Keefe gets a hard marking opponent almost every single game. Goodes only gets one every third game or so. In those games he does **** all almost every single time. Look at the weekend for example.

In Sydney's team I'd have O'Keefe, Jack and Mumford almost certainly above him, with a couple of others close also.


My top five would be:

Judd
Brown
Ablett
Riewoldt
Franklin.

I don't particularly rate Selwood as high as others. Have Chapman as the better player at this point. Swann also better.

 

[Jono]

Just read that Cotchin is likely to be suspended for 1-2 games.

FFS.

But Richmond star Trent Cotchin has avoided a ban after his jab into the midriff of Port Adelaide's Kane Cornes was deemed not to be a reportable offence.

Phew.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/115099/default.aspx

 

[Jono]

Goodes honestly hardly ever ever has any impact when he has a tight opponent. He looks a million dollars when he plays on a wing and gets no attention, but all half decent footballers should also. I'm force fed Sydney games so have watched nearly all their games over the past few years, O'Keefe gets a hard marking opponent almost every single game. Goodes only gets one every third game or so. In those games he does **** all almost every single time. Look at the weekend for example.

In Sydney's team I'd have O'Keefe, Jack and Mumford almost certainly above him, with a couple of others close also.

This is ludicrous. Who are these others? The only one in Sydney worthy of a comparison to Goodes is Jude Bolton.

And this weekend, for a game where he went missing he kicked two goals in a match where his team only scored 10, including a brilliant pick-up and goal in the last quarter at a crucial point.

Mate, in a below par season for Goodes last year he averaged 20 touches and kicked 44 goals. He can play wing, forward and in the guts. That's the same amount of ball as O'Keefe with 30 more goals.

And he doesn't get cheap ball. If he was so easy to shut down teams would do it every week, as he's way more damaging when the ball is in his hand than O'Keefe.

The only other player in Sydney who is anywhere near as important as Goodes is Bolton. Jack is awesome as well but doesn't offer the flexibility that Goodes offers.

 

[BoyBrumby]

This is purely based on them being prerequisites for the serious Dream Teamer, but where would Cox & Swan rate in the list? Consistently the highest scorers.

 

[Jono]

The only reason I didn't give Cox a mention in my list because he was injured for most of 2010, so was below par (same with 2009). My period was the last few season. He has been amazing this season.

Swan was brilliant in 2010, but he's still not quite as good as Judd, Ablett, Selwood and Chapman, and the reason I have Pendlbury above him is his performances in the important matches have been sublime.

 

[benchmark00]

This is ludicrous. Who are these others? The only one in Sydney worthy of a comparison to Goodes is Jude Bolton.

And this weekend, for a game where he went missing he kicked two goals in a match where his team only scored 10, including a brilliant pick-up and goal in the last quarter at a crucial point.

Mate, in a below par season for Goodes last year he averaged 20 touches and kicked 44 goals. He can play wing, forward and in the guts. That's the same amount of ball as O'Keefe with 30 more goals.

And he doesn't get cheap ball. If he was so easy to shut down teams would do it every week, as he's way more damaging when the ball is in his hand than O'Keefe.

The only other player in Sydney who is anywhere near as important as Goodes is Bolton. Jack is awesome as well but doesn't offer the flexibility that Goodes offers.

Well Jude Bolton is another yes.

I have to actually question how often you watch Sydney with these types of calls. Trying to defend Goodes' game on the weekend when NM had their best backman out typifies this. And also saying Goodes kicked 30 more goals than O'Keefe last year makes him better further backs up this opinion because Ryan O'keefe predominately played in the backline last year, with a little bit in the midfield!!

Goodes is the epitome of an outside player. Some people get sucked in by that and rate him highly, ****, the umpires have been all his career... I do not fall for it.

 

[benchmark00]

This is purely based on them being prerequisites for the serious Dream Teamer, but where would Cox & Swan rate in the list? Consistently the highest scorers.

I have Swann above Pendlebury and others due to consistency and work rate. Is so hard to tag because he covers so much ground and so smart about it.

Cox is the second best ruckman in the league so would be in the top 25 or so as well.

 

[Jono]

Hang on, that's disingenuous, I never said Goodes having more goals alone makes him better. I know O'Keefe didn't play up forward last season, as Roos changed his role from the usual leading half-forward role he played. But the fact is, Goodes kicked 44 goals and got a lot of the ball in a season which most think he didn't play as well as he did in previous years.

And you can't call a guy an outside player when he played half of the last 12-18 months predominantly up forward. You want him to be an inside midfielder when he's unbelievably dangerous in front of the sticks?

 

[benchmark00]

So are we rating him as a forward or a midfielder? Or are we doing both? Because he may be versatile but he's pretty much fair to middling at both when it comes down to it.


btw:

Harvey hungry? Hardly - Official AFL Website of the North Melbourne Football Club

 

[Jono]

If you asked any coach in the League if Goodes is a middling player in any facet of his game, they'd laugh at you. The level to how highly spoken he is by opposition coaches, let alone Roos, is incredible.

The reason Goodes doesn't play inside is because Sydney over the last decade has been clogged with inside players. They have needed someone with a burst of speed and good foot skills and he's played that role to perfection.

Which forwards had as much ball as Goodes did last year and kicked over 40 goals? Only Gary Ablett and Steve Johnson come to mind. Maybe Brad Green as well who I recall kicked a few last year, but I question how important his possies were compared to Goodes.

Re: Brent Harvey, he's one of my favourite players in the last dacade so you don't have to convince me that he's not selfish, or that he's an underrated star etc. As I said, I've been to so many Roos games that I've seen his brilliance first hand. WAG.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Swan is every bit as good as Judd imo.

 

[benchmark00]

If you asked any coach in the League if Goodes is a middling player in any facet of his game, they'd laugh at you. The level to how highly spoken he is by opposition coaches, let alone Roos, is incredible.

The reason Goodes doesn't play inside is because Sydney over the last decade has been clogged with inside players. They have needed someone with a burst of speed and good foot skills and he's played that role to perfection.

Which forwards had as much ball as Goodes did last year and kicked over 40 goals? Only Gary Ablett and Steve Johnson come to mind. Maybe Brad Green as well who I recall kicked a few last year, but I question how important his possies were compared to Goodes.

Re: Brent Harvey, he's one of my favourite players in the last dacade so you don't have to convince me that he's not selfish, or that he's an underrated star etc. As I said, I've been to so many Roos games that I've seen his brilliance first hand. WAG.

Why on Earth do you keep banging on about possessions in rating a player? Goodes gets so many possessions because he plays as an outside mid!

Coaches obviously think the world of him, that's why he hardly ever gets a tag.

I'm not saying he doesn't play the role of an outside midfielder well. But I could get a greyhound and put it in a football guernsey and it'd play the same role. I mean fmd, Dennis Armfield does it every single week.

 

[Jono]

Swan is every bit as good as Judd imo.

One reason why I kind of wish Ablett didn't go Gold Coast was because I wanted to see Ablett vs. Judd head-to-head for another season.

Judd is arguably better than he's ever been in the way he's imposing himself on games (his performance vs. Sydney in the elimination final was incredible) and Ablett from 07-10 was just ridiculously good.

Once Judd got to full fitness those two have been ahead of Swan imo, but I can understand why some think Swan is up there. The guy is a machine and kicks a ****load of goals as well.