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Best innings in a bad pitch.

Austerlitz

U19 Debutant
Kallis despite his stats is not in the league of the other 3.Main reasons
being -
Inability to perform upto par against top teams in away conditions.
His avg of 56 in tests drops to 35 vs aus in aus and a dismal 29 in england.About 40 in SL.

No double hundreds until recent series he made 1 vs india,doesn't make too many big hundreds.

Minnow basher.Inhuman avgs vs zim and bang.

Great avg vs the west indies,but on closer look his avg boost vs them really comes after 2000 when walsh-ambrose retired and west indies turned minnow.First series in the late 90s vs Wi when 2 Ws were still there he avged 24.To overall avg of 70 vs Wi i think.

Poor big match player.Not a single 100 in 4 world cups against non minnow sides.Part of 4 WC chokes.

A dismal avg of 17 in finals.

And lastly...fail against warnie.Can't put that vs Lara or SRT both of whom dominated warne.
 

vcs

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Most of the above are fairly lazy arguments. For starters, he averages 45 in Australia. Perfectly acceptable.
 

hang on

State Vice-Captain
but, austerlitz, surely that argument could be used against ponting, too. he averages in the 20s against india away. and in the early 40s in england. as a matter of fact, long before his average entered the 20s against india after his decent performances there last year, noone quibbled about his status as an alltime great batsman..... so, why should a different yardstick be applied to kallis?
 

Austerlitz

U19 Debutant
Most of the above are fairly lazy arguments. For starters, he averages 45 in Australia. Perfectly acceptable.
Must have improved it in last series.Last read his stats at 38.Against a pretty ordinary aussie attack.Besides the point isn't if its acceptable,the point is if its good enough to be compared to other 3.
All his great runs scored comes from after 2000s.Lets see wasim waqar retired,walsh ambrose retired.
No saqlain.
Fail vs warne,avg vs murali and below par vs mcgrath. Steyn in his own side,donald in his own side.Only dominant vs kumble to certain extent.And poor shoaib.

And what do u say about his terrible 17 avg in final matches.Or 29 avg in england or no century in 4 WC vs non minnows and part in 4 choke jobs?

Sorry if i can't rate him that high.
 

vcs

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He is certainly not an ODI great, for mine. He was voted in the CW top 15 ODI cricketers of all time, which I think is vastly overrating him in that format.

That has nothing to do with how good he is in Tests, however.
 

Austerlitz

U19 Debutant
but, austerlitz, surely that argument could be used against ponting, too. he averages in the 20s against india away. and in the early 40s in england. as a matter of fact, long before his average entered the 20s against india after his decent performances there last year, noone quibbled about his status as an alltime great batsman..... so, why should a different yardstick be applied to kallis?

His avg vs india has increased..and his status as an ATG wasn't quibbled becuase he went through a bradman like period to shut evrybody up during 5-6 yrs,,,yeah he's declined now and that reflects in his avg now below 53 but still is a great batsman.I wasn't convinced even at his peak but he convinced me in the last test tour with his scratchy but gritty knocks and especially 100 in QF .Enormous respect after that..with everybody calling for his head.
Infact now that he's given up captaincy i seriously expect a revival of sorts from him if not tendulkar lvl certainly a string of great performances because his game is more reflex oreinted than tendu's balanace oriented and he has to play on bouncy fast tracks more often.


All in all,Yes his avg too may have some dips in some places but main diff between punter and kallis is he is a BIG MATCH player.
 

hang on

State Vice-Captain
his average in india increased to something in the mid to late 20s....still rather ordinary. btw, the only reason i brought up his indian average was that u had brought up kallis's rather ordinary averages. in any event, was his bradmanesque purple patch one that lasted 5 or 6 years? i doubt it. kallis, too, had a pretty good run for a few years during which he scored an astonishing number of runs at a damned impressive average.

not sure how odi performances contribute to evaluating their test performances and 'rankings'.....nobody is arguing that kallis is on par with ponting as an odi batsman.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Hayden's knock in Sharjah where he made more runs in one innings than Pakistan in two innings put together also deserves a mention here.
Yeah Haydos was awesome in that match, but pitch was fine though. Weather was INSANE, awful conditions, but the pitch was actually pretty flat. Warnie just bowled straight balls, and the Pakistan batsmen just crumbled under the heat, they just gifted wickets to nothing balls from the pace bowlers, was no seam or swing or low bounce etc.....just complete FAIL batting!!!!
2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Sharjah, Oct 11-12, 2002 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

That's the one. Incredible batting in 50 degree heat for 7 hours.

See, talking about dead rubbers, and averages dropping if you take out certain teams kind of impresses upon me the importance of passing judgment based on a combination of statistics and observation.

See, if someone looks back on stats in 20 years, they may well think Hayden and Lara were of a not dissimilar standard if you look at their averages, appetites for big scores etc (though of course Lara played longer). But can anyone who saw both play seriously say Hayden was in the same league as a player as Lara? Really? I doubt Hayden himself would, which isn't to say he isn't a damn fine player himself, because he was.

Hayden could have scored just as many runs as Lara for just as long, and I'd still rate Lara higher, from watching him. Just as I'd rate Tendulkar > Ponting > Dravid. From watching.

I left Kallis out because I didn't want to fall off my chair laughing in suggesting he belongs in the same company as Lara, Tendulkar or Ponting. Just my opinion.
The thing with Lara is he has so few not-outs. That's why his average is comparatively inferior to other greats. But in terms of runs per innings he is ahead of the other all-time great batsmen of his time.
 
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tooextracool

International Coach
Ponting's 156 was an epic, great knock, but a great innings on a bad pitch? Not even close. Was not much wrong with that pitch all match. Dont find many bad pitches in matches ending in draws over 5 days.
Wasnt a bad pitch, though the definition of a 'bad pitch' would probably need to be qualified IMO. Is it difficult batting conditions or a sticky wicket? As far as Im concerned, a pitch is only as tricky as the bowlers who bowl on it. Mumbai 2004 was a poor pitch but scoring runs against Hauritz hardly counts as a monumental achievement.

The way that Jones and Flintoff were bowling that game it was definitely not easy batting (as generally tends to be the case at Old Trafford when teams bowl well) which is why no one else in the Australian side managed a 50 in that innings. What happened in England's innings is irrelevant because we saw many times in that series and also in the 2009 and 2010/11 Ashes that one team could well have been bowling at Headingley and the other bowling in Antigua in the same test match.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Have to say that one innings that stands out from memory was Ponting's 156 at Old Trafford in 2005. I can safely say that I've never been a fan of Ponting, but when people re-watch that innings 10-15 years from now, they will probably not appreciate it for what it was given the outcome of the series. In my eyes, he walked into bat as a very good nearly great player and walked out of the ground and straight into the league of a few.
AWTA.. massive respect to him for that knock from me as well and I am as big a critic of him here as anyone..
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Graeme Pollock's hundred at Trent Bridge in 1965 has to be one of the best ever...

South Africa were in all sorts of trouble...Richie Benaud said the pitch was like plastecine (nobody could play on that rubbish). Sir Donald Bradman then told Graeme Pollock that if he ever played like that again he must send him a telegram to come watch.

From cricinfo: http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1960S/1965/RSA_IN_ENG/RSA_ENG_T2D1_05AUG1965_MR

Date-stamped : 09 Mar94 - 18:23
South Africa v England, Test 2
Played at Trent Bridge, Nottingham, 5, 6, 7, 9 Aug 65

====> Day 1, 5 Aus 65
Pollock Touches the Heights

An innings was played here today by Graeme Pollock which in point
of style and power, of ease and beauty of execution, is fit to
rank with anything in the annals of the game. Pollock came in
when, after 50 anxious minutes, South Africa's score stood at 16
for 2. Between this point and lunch he batted easily and without
inhibition or restraint while two more wickets fell, and his
companions struggled in every sort of difficulty against some
very good swing bowling by Cartwright. When the afternoon began
the scoreboard showed 76 for 4, Pollock 34. An hour and 10
minutes later it said 178 for 6, and Pollock was walking back
with 125 to his name, and the crowd standing in salute to a
glorious piece of batting.

In cold fact this young man of 21 had made then 125 out of 162 in
2 hours and 20 minutes, and in the 70 minutes since lunch 91 out
of 102. In his whole innings were 21 fours, and the two of these
that came off the edge from Cartwright's bowling were the only
false strokes of any kind that I saw. The other 19 were either
hit with a full, easy swing of the bat, or glanced or cut to
every point of the compass. No one could find any way of
containing him because (like E. R. Dexter, G. Sobers, and
R. Kanhai, perhaps alone among modern players) he uses every
stroke. It may perhaps be said by anyone trying to evaluate
this innings that to have deserved the label of greatness it
would have needed to be confronted by bowling of a higher
quality than much that was seen. Well, when South Africa were at
their worst pass, at 43 for 4, with Bland just gone, he
made three strokes to the cover boundary inside a few minutes,
two off Cartwright and one off Titmus, and all three from
balls that would have looked a good length to anyone else, with
a precision of timing and consequent speed over the field
that had everyone gasping. With these strokes the moral balance
shifted dramatically, and South Africa must have begun to see
the vision of recovery so long as their young hero could stay.
It may be that after lunch as his assault reached its climax
the bowling began to look somewhat ragged. That was Pollock's
due reward.

Pollock has been spoken of in the same breath as Frank Woolley:
there is no one who holds Woolley in greater esteem than myself,
and I believe that he would have been proud, at his best, to have
played as well as Pollock did this afternoon. Indeed, in the
left-handedness, in the height and reach, and in the clean-cut
simplicity of his striking of the ball, the comparison with
Woolley is the obvious one that applies. And if any young
cricketer asks how the very best of the pre-war players batted he
could be safely told: "Just like Graeme Pollock did against
England at Trent Bridge."

All that followed Pollock was, inevitably, anti-climax, but van
der Merwe and Dumbrill both batted well enough against an attack
that was still shaken from the buffeting it had received. Indeed
it was only by a run-out that England broke the next stand,
Dumbrill and his captain getting in a rare muddle, and Smith
backing up quickly at the bowler's end, and finally hitting the
wicket from short range. The last four wickets, post-Pollock and
thanks to him, added 91 in a couple of hours to give South Africa
in the end a respectable score.

When England went in Peter Pollock bowled fast (though for some
strange reason into a strong cross wind) and the light was dull.
Boycott succumbed to the second ball, caught at second slip by
Lance who only held on to the ball by doubling up. In Pollock's
next over Barrington played on hard, whereupon Titmus was called
upon to last the remaining 20 minutes. He survived with Barber,
but with one brother underlining the recovery made by the other
it was, all in all, a wonderfully good day which ended with our
visitors undeniably on top.

(Thanks : "As I said at the Time", E.W.Swanton, Collins, 1983)
<END> Contributed by murari (venka@*me.utexas.edu)

SCORECARD: 2nd Test: England v South Africa at Nottingham, Aug 5-9, 1965 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
 

miscer

U19 Cricketer
Opening match of a series. Away. In front of a full stadium, apparently "the best-attended Test in history."-Wisden. Although everyone got kicked out later, lol.

Pakistan: 185 all out

India: 223 all out

Pakistan: 316 all out
Saeed Anwar: 188* Strike Rate: 72.58 thus, opening and carrying his bat through.
(Javal Srinath had bowling figures of 8/86 in this innings).

India: 232 all out

No other batsman got a 100 and only 4 other batsman scored a 50+ in the entire match.

Seems like a brilliant performance on a wicket described by Wisden as "a seaming pitch."
 
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robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Mark Taylor 124 vs England, Day One 1st test 1993. Pitch was seaming and swinging a lot on day one.
 
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Top_Cat

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Oh **** yes, that was a superb knock, one of Taylor's best. Was turning too, from memory.

EDIT: How glorious the two sixes off Such?
 
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robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Rare Taylor sixes! Both superb sixes. In the next test he wacked Gooch over square leg for six to bring up his fifty.
 

vcs

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The "Ball of the Century" match, eh? Still remember it fondly, first Ashes Test I ever saw. Hughes getting Gatting bowled on the last ball of day 4 was amazing.
 

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Yeah thats the match. was really a spinning pitch, but on day one it was so overcast and gloomy that it was swinging and spinning. We collapsed in a heap after Taylor and Slater put on over 100. By day 3 it was spinning a lot, and boy was it hilarious when Merv bowled Gatting, classic stuff.
 

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