*Official* English Football Season 2010-11

[Ikki]

The big difference between 08-09/09-10 in terms of Alonso is that we kept playing the same system without the player that was integral to that system (Alonso). Losing Mascherano this season also made it worse because those two were the fulcrum for everything else in that team. Right now, I'd argue neither of those two would fit into how we are playing at the moment. Right now we have Spearing/Lucas/Meireles/Maxi all very dynamic with their passes and movement. IMO that is what has given us success - a change in the system. And lest we forget, we were winning matches under Dalglish with Gerrard in there too (cough, United, cough). What's more important than Gerrard being in the side is Gerrard being fit. He's missed almost half the season this year.

BUT, Alonso being a better CM than Gerrard...well it just isn't true if you look at his whole career with us. In that system that Rafa had in the runner-up season Alonso was more suited than Gerrard in the middle (and ideally if you have a player capable of scoring 24 goals and 11 assists you play him closer to goal, not in midfield), I think most people would agree with that. Although to Gerrard's credit in the 06-07 season, when we played a similar system, and went to the CL final, he was asked to play alongside Mascherano a lot since Alonso missed half the season and he did very very well.

I mentioned something earlier I am not sure you guys thought about or agreed with: Alonso is a fantastic CM/DM if he has the right partner. It is in this modern form of 4-5-1/4-3-3 where he comes to the fore. When we were playing 4-4-2 in Rafa's first two seasons he was a good player but not what he is now. He was younger, less experienced, sure, but he does lack the physical aspect of playing in the middle if he isn't playing alongside someone who covers his deficiencies.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The big difference between 08-09/09-10 in terms of Alonso is that we kept playing the same system without the player that was integral to that system (Alonso). Losing Mascherano this season also made it worse because those two were the fulcrum for everything else in that team. Right now, I'd argue neither of those two would fit into how we are playing at the moment. Right now we have Spearing/Lucas/Meireles/Maxi all very dynamic with their passes and moving. IMO that is what has given us success. And lest we forget, we were winning matches under Dalglish with Gerrard in there too (cough, United, cough). What's more important than Gerrard being in the side is Gerrard being fit.

BUT, Alonso being a better CM than Gerrard...well it just isn't true if you look at his whole career with us. In that system that Rafa had in the runner-up season Alonso was more suited than Gerrard in the middle (and ideally if you have a played capable of scoring 24 goals and 11 assists you play him closer to goal, not in midfield), I think most people would agree with that. Although to Gerrard's credit in the 06-07 season, when we played a similar system, and went to the CL final, he was asked to play alongside Mascherano a lot since Alonso missed half the season and he did very very well.

So we agree then. All I said was that Alonso was more crucial to that Liverpool side than Gerrard was/is now. Not particularly fussed about why.

 

[Nate]

I'd happily take Kaka at City. I understand he's a shadow of 05-07 Kaka and he's rather injury plagued these days but adding a player of his experience and his quality to a team headed for their first Champions League campaign cannot be a wrong move. He may struggle with the physicality of the Prem, but with Silva and Yaya both there to play a similar position and de Jong/Barry there to shield he could be a very shrewd aquisition. I'd certainly buy a Kaka jersey the first day they were available, just like I did with Robinho...

Okay, is this more to your liking?:

I don't know which of these I like more.

 

[Ikki]

So we agree then. All I said was that Alonso was more crucial to that Liverpool side than Gerrard was/is now. Not particularly fussed about why.

I know but the comparison between them stemmed from their ability as CMs. I was making a point to show that it was a myriad of other things (tactics, primarily) that made Alonso so important to us in his last year as a CM. Outside of that system Alonso wasn't as important of a player. Moreover, even in that system Gerrard was still our best player on the whole - but he played as an AM/SS then. Some of our best performances came when he wasn't even in the team that year (the United 4-1 win).

So this post:

The Liverpool team has suffered more sans Alonso than it does sans Gerrard. Remove Alonso (their only truly major loss that summer) and Liverpool went from 86 points and 2nd to 63 points and 7th. Meanwhile by far their best run of this season has come when Gerrard has been absent. Personally, I don't find the fact that in recent times Liverpool have suffered more without Alonso than without Gerrard very coincidental.

is wildly inaccurate and assumes too much. The difference between us coming 2nd and 7th wasn't Alonso. He was wonderful but he wasn't Maradona (or Gerrard). He left, but there were many other things. Even in the season we came 2nd, Gerrard was the player of the year (club and league). Now the system is totally different; if Alonso comes back he'd probably be even more irrelevant, as we are no longer playing a strict ballplayer+destroyer combo anymore.

IMO the only strong observation that could be made is that in the 4-5-1 we employed with Rafa during the end of his tenure it was Alonso who was more important as a CM than Gerrard. I wouldn't say he was more important than Gerrard - at best, equal. And again, there is the matter of 3 years where he was also at the club...

 

[GIMH]

Ikki - you say 'if Alonso comes back'

Is that a rumour you've heard or are you being purely hypothetical?

 

[Ikki]

I'm being hypothetical but, actually, there is a rumour about it right now. Although I very much doubt it. Alonso is critical to that Real side.

 

[Furball]

It's about as credible as me claiming that Rangers are going to sign Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Some nutter tried to attack Neil Lennon, wtf.

 

[roseboy64]

Not condoning it but Lennon's antics have riled some people up. No excuse for attacking him though. Just stupid.

 

[GIMH]

Some nutter tried to attack Neil Lennon, wtf.

What happened?

 

[PhoenixFire]

He was in his technical area and some bloke from the Hearts section (doubt he was a Hearts fan though) jumped over the barrier and tried to attack him. Bloke got tackled by the stewards before anything bad happened tho.

Kinda poor form that anyone could get near him though, considering how high profile the anger at him is.

 

[marc71178]

He shouldn't stir things up by the statements he makes then.

 

[Furball]

He was in his technical area and some bloke from the Hearts section (doubt he was a Hearts fan though) jumped over the barrier and tried to attack him. Bloke got tackled by the stewards before anything bad happened tho.

Kinda poor form that anyone could get near him though, considering how high profile the anger at him is.

Mr Lennon isn't a popular man in Edinburgh either.

Here's the amiable, lovely chap last time Celtic ventured to Tynecastle:

 

[Furball]

As for this being unusual, players and officials have been getting attacked by Celtic fans at Parkhead for years.

 

[99*]

Some nutter tried to attack Neil Lennon, wtf.

What on earth did this guy do to everybody?

 

[Craig]

He shouldn't stir things up by the statements he makes then.

Still no excuse for somebody for doing that. Jesus Christ, sure he might have said inflammatory things, but FFS let it go, it's just a game of football.

 

[Furball]

What on earth did this guy do to everybody?

In short:

• Forced a referee to retire earlier in the season after a starting a witchunt after Celtic were refused a penalty
• Called another referee's (Willie Collum) integrity into question after he awarded a penalty to Rangers in the first Old Firm game of the season
• He and his club's vendetta against referees resulted in the referees going on strike
• His antics pictured above earned him a 4 game touchline ban after he abused the 4th official after Joe Ledley was sent off
• Called Collum's integrity into question again after he correctly ruled out a last minute "winner" for Celtic against Hamilton
• Wandered out of his technical area during a cup tie to abuse El Hadji Diouf after Diouf had been called to the sidelines to receive tactical instructions after Rangers had been reduced to 10 men
• In the same game attempted to pick a fight with Ally McCoist at the final whistle when McCoist went to shake his hand after the game, picking up another 4 game ban in the process
• Has recently called into question the integrity of both Dundee Utd and Hearts players, saying that he'd "seen no evidence of them trying" in matches against Rangers - conveniently ignoring that Dundee Utd were the last team to beat Rangers, and ignoring Celtic's own convincing wins against both sides recently

That's all from this season alone. The guy is a cancer on our game. While I don't condone idiots who are sending him stuff through the mail or attacking him on the touchline, I really wish he'd just **** off from Scotland.

 

[grecian]

In short:

• Forced a referee to retire earlier in the season after a starting a witchunt after Celtic were refused a penalty
• Called another referee's (Willie Collum) integrity into question after he awarded a penalty to Rangers in the first Old Firm game of the season
• He and his club's vendetta against referees resulted in the referees going on strike
• His antics pictured above earned him a 4 game touchline ban after he abused the 4th official after Joe Ledley was sent off
• Called Collum's integrity into question again after he correctly ruled out a last minute "winner" for Celtic against Hamilton
• Wandered out of his technical area during a cup tie to abuse El Hadji Diouf after Diouf had been called to the sidelines to receive tactical instructions after Rangers had been reduced to 10 men
• In the same game attempted to pick a fight with Ally McCoist at the final whistle when McCoist went to shake his hand after the game, picking up another 4 game ban in the process
• Has recently called into question the integrity of both Dundee Utd and Hearts players, saying that he'd "seen no evidence of them trying" in matches against Rangers - conveniently ignoring that Dundee Utd were the last team to beat Rangers, and ignoring Celtic's own convincing wins against both sides recently

That's all from this season alone. The guy is a cancer on our game. While I don't condone idiots who are sending him stuff through the mail or attacking him on the touchline, I really wish he'd just **** off from Scotland.

hey, if he managed Man U, he'd be knighted for that stuff.....

 

[Furball]

hey, if he managed Man U, he'd be knighted for that stuff.....

Ferguson's always struck me as quite a calculating type - he's had his moments but I don't recall him being banned that often for things.

Lennon on the other hand is a dangerous, unhinged lunatic.

 

[marc71178]

His charge about the referee comment was the 5th one in 5 seasons. Straight away after that ban he made comments about a referee and got away with it.

Of course he doesn't have as many high profile issues because he refuses to speak to half the media - and gets away with that as well.