Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll

[cnerd123]

So...umm...anyone still want those stats showing that Sobers played a lot more as a support bowler than a strike bowler?

 

[smash84]

So...umm...anyone still want those stats showing that Sobers played a lot more as a support bowler than a strike bowler?

 

[ankitj]

Didn't know where else to post this, so bumping this thread.

I read the following comment from a friend of mine (whose judgement on past and present cricketers, I highly respect) on Imran Khan in the legends of cricket article:

As you mentioned about his performance against Windies in the 80s, 18 wickets and 23 wickets but about half of those wickets were tailenders (number 8 to 11 batsmen), which he was very good at (Wasim Akram was even better, about half of his career wickets were of tailenders). About Imrans batting, he definitely batted well as captain and during last phase of his career. As a batsman captain he is in the company of few great players but can you see, even during his best phase his runs/test was less than 52, his batting average. Although Lara and Greg have played similar number of tests, they have scored almost double the number of runs that Imran scored! In fact it is even less than Botham's career runs/test.... so much for the averages.

The bowling criticism diminishes Imran's status as a bowler only very slightly (almost negligibly). But the batting criticism is an interesting one. Just as Sobers did not share a great deal of bowling load, Imran did not share much of batting load even in days when he was averaging very high (was he batting very low?). Thoughts?

(And if you are wondering why would dig an old article and check comments, well, I just added this guy of facebook and found his comments feed on his wall)

 

[smash84]

Didn't know where else to post this, so bumping this thread.

I read the following comment from a friend of mine (whose judgement on past and present cricketers, I highly respect) on Imran Khan in the legends of cricket article:



The bowling criticism diminishes Imran's status as a bowler only very slightly (almost negligibly). But the batting criticism is an interesting one. Just as Sobers did not share a great deal of bowling load, Imran did not share much of batting load even in days when he was averaging very high (was he batting very low?). Thoughts?

(And if you are wondering why would dig an old article and check comments, well, I just added this guy of facebook and found his comments feed on his wall)

Can Sobers appeal to women of all races and nationalities like Imran???

Towards the end of his career i.e. in the last 2 to 3 years he was not batting very low IIRC. But he played very few tests in the last 4 years of his career I think. Yes, right I am.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

his bowling average in his last 18 matches is near 27.

 

[salman85]

Imran was a bowling allrounder.The majority of his career,more than half actually,was spent batting on No.7.Even during the final years of his career,he moved up to no.6 for a while,but his basic position was always no.7.Botham and Sobers also batted lower own the order,but they also spent times of their up in the order.

Statistically :
Imran played most of his innings at no.7 and no.8 (73% of his career)
Botham played most his innings at no.6 and 7 (80% of his career)
Sobers played most his innings at no.5 and 6(58% of his career)

Sobers was easily the more versatile batsman compared to Imran and Botham,but the argument for Imran's low test runs scored fails to take into account the fact that he batted down the order,and a lot of times ended up with tailenders.He was a much lesser batsman than Sobers,and a slightly lesser batsman than Botham nevertheless.

There is no comparison between Sobers-Imran-Botham when it comes to the better batsman debate,since Sobers takes it easily.Things are much more debatable between Botham and Imran's ability as batsman however.Botham has the better record,but his peak from 1978-1982 inflates his figures enormously.Imran on the other hand,was perhaps more consistent than Ian and he didn't decline as rapidly as Ian did.

 

[bagapath]

Imran was a bowling allrounder.The majority of his career,more than half actually,was spent batting on No.7.Even during the final years of his career,he moved up to no.6 for a while,but his basic position was always no.7.Botham and Sobers also batted lower own the order,but they also spent times of their up in the order.

Statistically :
Imran played most of his innings at no.7 and no.8 (73% of his career)
Botham played most his innings at no.6 and 7 (80% of his career)
Sobers played most his innings at no.5 and 6(58% of his career)

Sobers was easily the more versatile batsman compared to Imran and Botham,but the argument for Imran's low test runs scored fails to take into account the fact that he batted down the order,and a lot of times ended up with tailenders.He was a much lesser batsman than Sobers,and a slightly lesser batsman than Botham nevertheless.

There is no comparison between Sobers-Imran-Botham when it comes to the better batsman debate,since Sobers takes it easily.Things are much more debatable between Botham and Imran's ability as batsman however.Botham has the better record,but his peak from 1978-1982 inflates his figures enormously.Imran on the other hand,was perhaps more consistent than Ian and he didn't decline as rapidly as Ian did.

gun post. agree with salman.

 

[abmk]

Didn't know where else to post this, so bumping this thread.

I read the following comment from a friend of mine (whose judgement on past and present cricketers, I highly respect) on Imran Khan in the legends of cricket article:



The bowling criticism diminishes Imran's status as a bowler only very slightly (almost negligibly). But the batting criticism is an interesting one. Just as Sobers did not share a great deal of bowling load, Imran did not share much of batting load even in days when he was averaging very high (was he batting very low?). Thoughts?

(And if you are wondering why would dig an old article and check comments, well, I just added this guy of facebook and found his comments feed on his wall)

Yeah, that's correct. He was regarded as the best allrounder among the 4, but not by much , in his times. I think Imran's status has been glorified quite a bit in recent times. Some of the comments you read these days make it seem appear he was well ahead of the 3. He was not, IMO

 

[smash84]

Yeah, that's correct. He was regarded as the best allrounder among the 4, but not by much , in his times. I think Imran's status has been glorified quite a bit in recent times. Some of the comments you read these days make it seem appear he was well ahead of the 3. He was not, IMO

I think it also has to do with the fact that Imran probably managed his career in a much better way than the others hence he ends looking much better towards the end when the difference actually was not that great.

In the last 3 years of his career Imran bowled much less and concentrated on the batting and hence he didn't seem to be going downhill that quickly. In contrast Kapil ruined his record trying to beat Hadlee's record. He should have retired much earlier. Goes double for Botham. Hadlee was definitely a level below the other 3 in terms of batting

 

[archie mac]

Yeah, that's correct. He was regarded as the best allrounder among the 4, but not by much , in his times. I think Imran's status has been glorified quite a bit in recent times. Some of the comments you read these days make it seem appear he was well ahead of the 3. He was not, IMO

As an Aussie I always worried about Botham more than Imran, and even Hadlee more than Imran

 

[abmk]

I think it also has to do with the fact that Imran probably managed his career in a much better way than the others hence he ends looking much better towards the end when the difference actually was not that great.

In the last 3 years of his career Imran bowled much less and concentrated on the batting and hence he didn't seem to be going downhill that quickly. In contrast Kapil ruined his record trying to beat Hadlee's record. He should have retired much earlier. Goes double for Botham. Hadlee was definitely a level below the other 3 in terms of batting

yeah, agreed.

 

[abmk]

As an Aussie I always worried about Botham more than Imran, and even Hadlee more than Imran

not surprised, considering Botham's all-around and Hadlee's bowling exploits vs the Aussies

 

[Borges]

If a cross section of cricket fans were asked to name their All Time Test XI - yeah I know, it's an absolutely impossible task unless one happens to work for cricinfo (or post with alarming frequency on Cricket Web); so let's just assume that some one put a gun to their head and forced them to do it - I think Sobers would figure in the majority of those, and Imran would be there in quite a few. Can't see Botham, Hadlee or Kapil getting much of a mention.

 

[archie mac]

If a cross section of cricket fans were asked to name their All Time Test XI - yeah I know, it's an absolutely impossible task unless one happens to work for cricinfo (or post with alarming frequency on Cricket Web); so let's just assume that some one put a gun to their head and forced them to do it - I think Sobers would figure in the majority of those, and Imran would be there in quite a few. Can't see Botham, Hadlee or Kapil getting much of a mention.

I would think almost every NZ supporter would have Hadlee in the team. I remember when I first come on this forum a poll was held in England where fans had to name the best ever cricketer, they chose Botham

 

[Spark]

A lot of folks here put Hadlee in their team I think, as a specialist bowler whose batting is an added bonus.

 

[Teja.]

A lot of folks here put Hadlee in their team I think, as a specialist bowler whose batting is an added bonus.

Yep, The difference between Imran and Hadlee and any other ATG specialist pacer post 1920 is negligible and their batting is considerably better so they are auto-picks for me.

 

[Borges]

My ATG XI batting would be so strong that attempting to provide cover for it in 8, 9, 10 and Jack being able to hold a bat would be superfluous. I'd just pick the best goddamn wicket keeper and bowlers that I can think of. Taking twenty wickets in as short a time as possible being the overriding consideration.

 

[archie mac]

My ATG XI batting would be so strong that attempting to provide cover for it in 8, 9, 10 and Jack being able to hold a bat would be superfluous. I'd just pick the best goddamn wicket keeper and bowlers that I can think of. Taking twenty wickets in as short a time as possible being the overriding consideration.

You would be playing someone else's all time XI though Might come down to who has Bradman

 

[Teja.]

My ATG XI batting would be so strong that attempting to provide cover for it in 8, 9, 10 and Jack being able to hold a bat would be superfluous. I'd just pick the best goddamn wicket keeper and bowlers that I can think of. Taking twenty wickets in as short a time as possible being the overriding consideration.

Strength is a relative term though, I'm assuming that my team is playing a Mars XI which is even stronger than my team so I try to squeeze as much utility out of each selection as possible.

 

[Borges]

You would be playing someone else's all time XI though Might come down to who has Bradman

Yeah, that's a thought. Still would prefer the strongest possible attack, and a keeper who can pouch everything.

Bradman is no worry though; my Bradman will cancel out someone else's Bradman. Hmm.. At long last, I've discovered a situation in cricket where Bradman has become completely irrelevant.

 

[archie mac]

Yeah, that's a thought. Still would prefer the strongest possible attack, and a keeper who can pouch everything.

Bradman is no worry though; my Bradman will cancel out someone else's Bradman. Hmm.. At long last, I've discovered a situation in cricket where Bradman has become completely irrelevant.

I know how that feels everytime I play someone in Super Coach we both have Dane Swan*

*Aussie Rules, Dane Swan the best player in the comp, although he plays for the team I hate the most