Australian Discussion (Final Squad Announced Post #82)

[pup11]

The big question right at this point of time is regarding the make-up of our side, whether we pick both Smith and Krezja in the same XI or do we look to strengthen our batting further by bringing in an extra batsman in place of either Smith or Krezja.

I presently don't have much confidence in Smith's ability to bat at #7 in such a huge tournament, I think the way to go would be to play Smith as our lone spinner in flat batting conditions whereas we can pick Krezja instead of him when the conditions seem conducive for spin bowling, that is something that allows us to squeeze in Ferguson at #5 and then have batting firepower of White and Dussey lower down the order.

 

[Spark]

It really depends. I haven't seen an ODI track like that one - where even in the first innings there was real turn and some variable bounce - in a long time.

I don't feel batting White in the lower-middle order is a good idea. He needs a decent look to find his timing before he can start going for it. He can't do the Mussey run-a-ball-fifty-with-one-four role either because he simply isn't great at working singles and twos. Ferguson is a much better option for #6 than White.

I'm still undecided as to whether we play Smith, Krezja or both.

 

[vicleggie]

smith may have looked suspect batting against the english pacers, but i think it's his enthusiasm and initiative that could be valuable down the order.

he could score a quick 30 and get the late overs hitters going.
plus his leg spin will be EXTREMELY handy. he did well in aus, so i think he'll be very effective here. i honestly think he could be very good for aus in this world cup. The kind of young blood they need. I'd play krejza on turning pitches as well, but replace him with hastings if not.

 

[pup11]

It really depends. I haven't seen an ODI track like that one - where even in the first innings there was real turn and some variable bounce - in a long time.

I don't feel batting White in the lower-middle order is a good idea. He needs a decent look to find his timing before he can start going for it. He can't do the Mussey run-a-ball-fifty-with-one-four role either because he simply isn't great at working singles and twos. Ferguson is a much better option for #6 than White.

I'm still undecided as to whether we play Smith, Krezja or both.

My main concern with White is his form, he's really struggling to time the ball atm and his lack of form makes the middle order even more fragile. The issue with Smith though is that at #7 he is not someone you could expect to either play a role of a finisher or a slogger, so unless Smith is bowling his 10 overs and bowling them well I don't see how he adds any real value to the side with his batting at #7.

Krezja is someone on the other hand who can can make serious impact in the middle overs if the wicket is taking spin, so I guess at the end of the day its that balance between bowling and batting line-up that we need to find for different conditions we encounter through the worldcup.

 

[Spark]

I think you're underrating his batting a little, but otherwise your point is very valid. It's a tricky one.

My main concern remains that below Clarke (who I presume despite his globe is still in form), high quality spinners such as Swann, the Indians and even the Banglas may give us headaches.

White's predicament is not entirely unexpected. There was always a risk that once he lost his touch a little, the other deficiencies in his game would be exploited.

 

[Top_Cat]

I think you're underrating his batting a little, but otherwise your point is very valid. It's a tricky one.

My main concern remains that below Clarke (who I presume despite his globe is still in form), high quality spinners such as Swann, the Indians and even the Banglas may give us headaches.

White's predicament is not entirely unexpected. There was always a risk that once he lost his touch a little, the other deficiencies in his game would be exploited.

Big presumption that he's in form at all considering his one decent knock this summer came against an English attack with only two specialist bowlers in it.

 

[Spark]

Big presumption that he's in form at all considering his one decent knock this summer came against an English attack with only two specialist bowlers in it.

Fair point.

EDIT: The ******** number of wides is a concern too.

 

[pup11]

I think you're underrating his batting a little, but otherwise your point is very valid. It's a tricky one.

My main concern remains that below Clarke (who I presume despite his globe is still in form), high quality spinners such as Swann, the Indians and even the Banglas may give us headaches.

White's predicament is not entirely unexpected. There was always a risk that once he lost his touch a little, the other deficiencies in his game would be exploited.

I'm a big fan of Smithy ever since his U-19 days and I've no doubt he would have a great career for Aus, but despite all the unorthodox 'tennis shots' he plays every now and then at the core he is still a pretty orthodox batsman who likes to basically play the ball into gaps and run his 1's and 2's and in between hit an odd boundary.

For some reason Australian think tank expects this young rookie to bat at arguably the toughest position in ODI cricket and do well, which AFAIC isn't going to happen because Smith just doesn't have the game or experience for that.

Also our problems against spin have been ongoing ever since the retirement of likes of Gilly, Haydos, Martyn, Symonds. Mind you none of these guys had great defensive techniques against spin but they hardly allowed a spinner to settle down and get into his groove which is something almost every current Australian batsman is guilty of doing.

Hopefully last night would be the kick on the backside we need to rectify this problem, becuase we have games against Pakistan and Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka during the group stages and likes of Murali, Mendis, Rehman, Afridi and Ajmal would certainly test our middle order.

 

[pup11]

Big presumption that he's in form at all considering his one decent knock this summer came against an English attack with only two specialist bowlers in it.

Haha... I was thinking the same, but again even last night during his short stay at the crease he looked like he meant business, he was trying to show some intent by trying to attack Chawla but for him the ball unfortunately stayed low while he attempted the cut shot, but all in all Clarke is a much better player when he is looking to be positive and him showing positive intent is a good sign for us.

 

[Spark]

Bit odd though, pitched on the stumps didn't it? Got out in the Tests in India doing something almost identical. Maybe needs to settle down a little.

 

[Spikey]

My main concern remains that below Clarke (who I presume despite his globe is still in form), high quality spinners such as Swann, the Indians and even the Banglas may give us headaches.

Ray Price to lead Zimbabwe to a shock win. book it.

(not even joking)

line-up's easy i thought...?

wat
had
pont
clarke
white
dussey
smith
lee
mj
hastings
tait/dougeh

 

[Spark]

wat had pont. has an interesting ring to it.

 

[morgieb]

Watson
Haddin
Ricky
Clarke
D Hussey
Ferguson/Smith
White
Johnson
Krejza
Lee
Tait/hastings

strenghts: watson, ricky/clarke i think will play well (as they will be infront of a crowd who aren't booing them haha) as long as not against indian spinners, good spin options in smith/krazy, brett lee looking good, ample bowling options with watto/dussey/clarke.

weakneses- cameron white batting poorly as of late. i dont think he should come in before number 6 or 7. He basically has two modes, chip and run, or smackths **** out of it. Smith can atleast work it around, and on flat decks of india he wont have to worry about his crap technique against the swinging ball.
If white bats at 7, with jonson atleast there willbe some good firepower there.

will be interesting to see if/how tait bowls. If he can be effective, that aus' bowling will be a handful. if not, or if mediocre genius' like hastings/bollinger have to play, then aus bowling looks a bit weaker.

last nights warm up match was not a good sign- another 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory' moment. if they keep with that ****, they wont go past the quarter finals, and will most probably lose to mentally tougher teams like england/south africa.

Haha, wtf? If anything, our recent OD form has proved otherwise. Also, South Africa are far from mentally tough and we won a couple of close games against the Poms in the ODers. 6-1 much?

 

[vicleggie]

Haha, wtf? If anything, our recent OD form has proved otherwise. Also, South Africa are far from mentally tough and we won a couple of close games against the Poms in the ODers. 6-1 much?

england barely looked like they were trying to win in that odi series.
when you have finn, shahzad, wright and other mediocres bowling, evena tight victory is hardly an heroic performance.

fact is they were playing against an extremly poor team in the odi series. their minds were already on the plane home. i dont think you can read too much into that.

yday tho reeked of the pathetic performances of the last few months, save lees bowling

 

[Spark]

Finn and Shazhad bowled excellently. It was their middle order than let them down.

 

[vicleggie]

plus the whole teams absolute indifference. i mean, did you see kps last innings?!

shahzad bowled well, but finn was patchy.

 

[pup11]

plus the whole teams absolute indifference. i mean, did you see kps last innings?!

shahzad bowled well, but finn was patchy.

Mate... say what you would like about our test team but we are not the #1 ODI team in the world by luck, we won against England 6-1 despite missing likes of Ponting, Mussey, Hauritz, Harris, Mckay, Johnson.

We went to India and beat a full strength Indian side at home in the seven match ODI series with virtually a second string side, this team won the Champions trophy without losing a game.

So obviously we haven't remained #1 in this format by just beating poor sides, there are some issues with the side atm but I think Rick is a good enough leader to put things back on track.

 

[vicleggie]

Mate... say what you would like about our test team but we are not the #1 ODI team in the world by luck, we won against England 6-1 despite missing likes of Ponting, Mussey, Hauritz, Harris, Mckay, Johnson.

We went to India and beat a full strength Indian side at home in the seven match ODI series with virtually a second string side, this team won the Champions trophy without losing a game.

So obviously we haven't remained #1 in this format by just beating poor sides, there are some issues with the side atm but I think Rick is a good enough leader to put things back on track.

fair points. lets see if they can show that form. all i was saying is that, given the way theyve been playing for THE MAJORITY of the last 5 months, i'd back 4-5 other teams before them in this world cup.

 

[morgieb]

The India and Sri Lanka series were not taken very seriously you'd think. Just look at how many players didn't play. England was an issue but there were a lot of injuries there iirc, and probably wasn't taken all that seriously either.

 

[Spark]

The India "series" wasn't even a series. I really don't know what you can take out of that on our side.