Australian Discussion (Final Squad Announced Post #82)

[benchmark00]

well i like you.


no homo

Devo at no homo*








*no homo, srs.

 

[pup11]

Yeah I must say that Ponting back at #3 - a position where we didn't manage a single fifty all series against England, the top score being Ferguson's 40-odd by an alarming amount - with Ferguson in the wings makes life a whole lot better.

White/Dussey/Smith is still making me very very nervous though. Lot of pressure on the top four to fire.

Smith has a decent FC record as a batsman, but seriously apart from one or two knocks has he done anything in his ODD career to be rated so highly by the Aussie think-tank?

I think he can bowl his 10 overs pretty much in every game, but at this point of time I would back someone like Johnson to score more runs than him and that's really the crazy part about Smith' selection because he is playing in the team primarily as a batsman who can bowl whereas at this point in his career it should be the other way around.

I'm much more comfortable with the idea of having a middle order comprising of White/Ferguson/Hussey and Smith than is left competing with Krezja for the spinner' slot.

 

[Nate]

Smith has a decent FC record as a batsman, but seriously apart from one or two knocks has he done anything in his ODD career to be rated so highly by the Aussie think-tank?

I think he can bowl his 10 overs pretty much in every game, but at this point of time I would back someone like Johnson to score more runs than him and that's really the crazy part about Smith' selection because he is playing in the team primarily as a batsman who can bowl whereas at this point in his career it should be the other way around.

I'm much more comfortable with the idea of having a middle order comprising of White/Ferguson/Hussey and Smith than is left competing with Krezja for the spinner' slot.

You keep talking about Smith like he's the devil. You do realise that he's averaging 27 (S/R 90) with the bat and 26 with the ball in his ODI Career so far?

 

[Ausage]

You keep talking about Smith like he's the devil. You do realise that he's averaging 27 (S/R 90) with the bat and 26 with the ball in his ODI Career so far?

Agreed. I'd have Smith over MJ as a batsman any day. Reck he'll go ok. I wouldn't back him against quality spin on a turner but if that was a selection measure we wouldn't be taking anyone to India.

 

[Spark]

If Smith was batting behind Mussey I'd feel much better.

 

[Burgey]

History of the WC doco starting Fox 3 now for those Aussie CWers interested.

 

[Nate]

It's been playing constantly for the last two weeks if you don't minddddddddd

 

[Burgey]

Well sorrrrryyyyyy!!!

 

[pup11]

You keep talking about Smith like he's the devil. You do realise that he's averaging 27 (S/R 90) with the bat and 26 with the ball in his ODI Career so far?

Is an average of 27 really good enough though..? The fact of the matter is that Smith is getting picked predominately as a batsman and then with the ball he is being used as a part-timer.

The thing with Smith is that he lacks the ability to play the big shots and under pressure neither has he shown the temperament of being able to play an innings of substance, its important that you have either one of these qualities if not both when you are batting as low as #7.

White and Hussey are hit & miss type of players so as a foil to them I would prefer a bloke like Ferguson in the middle order instead of Smith, becuase as I said a middle order with White/Hussey/Smith in it looks extremely fragile.

 

[Spark]

Hmm, I would say he has the ability to play the big shots for sure. He hits the ball ferociously hard, and is fairly strong on both sides of the wicket. I remember he caused a few headaches in England in the ODI series, smashing 20 off 10 at the very end once or twice.

Where he gets into trouble is when he starts inventing shots every second ball, when his orthodox strokeplay isn't too bad (although his pull shot could use some work).

His leggies are certainly useful as well if used in the right way.

I agree with the general gist of your post that Ferguson in that middle order somewhere would make it look much more stable.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Averaging 27 batting at 7 is fine. Averages can be misleading that low, need to look at impact. There's very little between 25(19) and 25*(20), but one makes a much larger difference in the averages.

 

[Nate]

Is an average of 27 really good enough though..? The fact of the matter is that Smith is getting picked predominately as a batsman and then with the ball he is being used as a part-timer.

The thing with Smith is that he lacks the ability to play the big shots and under pressure neither has he shown the temperament of being able to play an innings of substance, its important that you have either one of these qualities if not both when you are batting as low as #7.

White and Hussey are hit & miss type of players so as a foil to them I would prefer a bloke like Ferguson in the middle order instead of Smith, becuase as I said a middle order with White/Hussey/Smith in it looks extremely fragile.

Smith is getting picked as an all-rounder, without a doubt. I'd say 27 is a decent start after 15 games.

Haha, how would you know if he lacks the ability? What have you seen to make that claim?

I'd like Ferguson in aswell, but over Dussey.

 

[pup11]

Smith is getting picked as an all-rounder, without a doubt. I'd say 27 is a decent start after 15 games.

Haha, how would you know if he lacks the ability? What have you seen to make that claim?

I'd like Ferguson in aswell, but over Dussey.

If Smith is getting picked as an all-rounder than he just isn't bowling enough overs to be considered an all-rounder, in the recent England ODI series despite bowling well he didn't bowl out his quota in a single game, in fact in most games he just bowled 3-4 overs, along with that the fact that they were batting him in the top 6 in the Ashes suggests to me that he is considered a batsman who bowls a bit.

He just doesn't fit the bill as #7 in the shorter formats AFAIC, as there have been ocassions when I've seen him struggling to up the ante when Australia needed quick runs.

To put it simply... under pressure I can't see Smith putting together a partnership, nor can I see him coming in and going in hell for leather, so that obviously makes me question the sense behind him batting at #7.

Also I agree that Dussey wasn't in the greatest of form this domestic season but he was our second leading run scorer in the series against England, so there is no way his place should be under any threat for now. Expecting consistentcy from a player like Dussey is slightly ambitious but he is a match-winner and you need such players in your line-up for a tournament like the worldcup.

 

[Nate]

If Smith is getting picked as an all-rounder than he just isn't bowling enough overs to be considered an all-rounder, in the recent England ODI series despite bowling well he didn't bowl out his quota in a single game, in fact in most games he just bowled 3-4 overs, along with that the fact that they were batting him in the top 6 in the Ashes suggests to me that he is considered a batsman who bowls a bit.

He just doesn't fit the bill as #7 in the shorter formats AFAIC, as there have been ocassions when I've seen him struggling to up the ante when Australia needed quick runs.

To put it simply... under pressure I can't see Smith putting together a partnership, nor can I see him coming in and going in hell for leather, so that obviously makes me question the sense behind him batting at #7.

Also I agree that Dussey wasn't in the greatest of form this domestic season but he was our second leading run scorer in the series against England, so there is no way his place should be under any threat for now. Expecting consistentcy from a player like Dussey is slightly ambitious but he is a match-winner and you need such players in your line-up for a tournament like the worldcup.

Smith took 8 wickets @ 17.25 in that series. Clarke talked after the series about how he under-utilised him. He is definitely in the side for his bowling aswell, you're kidding if you think he's playing predominantly as a batsman. Not sure what Test Cricket has to do with this scenario.

He's scoring his runs at a strike-rate of 90, so he's doing something right.

You're wrong - Watson was out leading run-scorer.

There aren't any stats to suggest that Smith shouldn't be playing. But if you want to base your view on your instincts, that would make more sense.

 

[Spark]

Clarke talked after the series about how he under-utilised him.

Did he really?

 

[pup11]

Smith took 8 wickets @ 17.25 in that series. Clarke talked after the series about how he under-utilised him. He is definitely in the side for his bowling aswell, you're kidding if you think he's playing predominantly as a batsman. Not sure what Test Cricket has to do with this scenario.

He's scoring his runs at a strike-rate of 90, so he's doing something right.

You're wrong - Watson was out leading run-scorer.

There aren't any stats to suggest that Smith shouldn't be playing. But if you want to base your view on your instincts, that would make more sense.

First thing first I myself am saying that bowling is his bigger strength atm despite that he just is being treated as some part-time partnership breaking bowler and I hope that changes during the worldcup becuase he has genuine match-winning capabilities with the ball which is something that can't be said about his batting in his current role.

Call it my instincts or my analysis based on what I've seen of him for the Blues and Aus but he just isn't a #7 batsman, if you look at Australian #7's in recent times we have either opted for big hitters like Symonds and Watson or finishers like Clarke and Mussey, Smith fits into neither category he is just a batsman who has raw talent but has a lot to learn in regard to how to build an innings and play in different scenarios.

EDIT: ....And yeah I clearly said Dussey was our 2nd highest run scorer in that series and not only that he scored those runs at crucial stages.

 

[Noble One]

It is interesting to note that Steve Smith is now 14th on Australia's leading scorers from the number seven position. It is not a statistic that means a great deal, but it shows how tough it is to settle in the position.

 

[Nate]

First thing first I myself am saying that bowling is his bigger strength atm despite that he just is being treated as some part-time partnership breaking bowler and I hope that changes during the worldcup becuase he has genuine match-winning capabilities with the ball which is something that can't be said about his batting in his current role.

Call it my instincts or my analysis based on what I've seen of him for the Blues and Aus but he just isn't a #7 batsman, if you look at Australian #7's in recent times we have either opted for big hitters like Symonds and Watson or finishers like Clarke and Mussey, Smith fits into neither category he is just a batsman who has raw talent but has a lot to learn in regard to how to build an innings and play in different scenarios.

EDIT: ....And yeah I clearly said Dussey was our 2nd highest run scorer in that series and not only that he scored those runs at crucial stages.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say then, so never mind.

Lol, I was wrong about Dussey.

 

[vicleggie]

Averaging 27 batting at 7 is fine. Averages can be misleading that low, need to look at impact. There's very little between 25(19) and 25*(20), but one makes a much larger difference in the averages.

very true. sehwag averages 33 at 1.
smith is definately worth gambling on in this wc. These are the right conditions for him

 

[pup11]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say then, so never mind.

Lol, I was wrong about Dussey.

What I'm saying is pretty clear mate, I think Smith at this point of time really doesn't have the know how to have any real success as a batsman at the international stage, but still his bowling in the limited overs format is good enough for him to compete for the spin bowler' slot.

If we had a solid in form middle order than I won't have had any problems with Smith at #7, but with our current batting depth (or the lack of) I don't think Smith if he's picked should be batting any higher than #8.