***Official*** Spot-Fixing Scandal

[fredfertang]

OK, thanks for the info. If you don't mind me asking, do you practise law in the UK?

In my spare time - my main career is being the Village Idiot of Shinfield, but that doesn't pay too well

 

[Debris]

For 1b how were Asif and Amir enabling or assisting gambling? As I mentioned there isn't really any evidence linking them to Majeed or the money. For all we know they could have just been asked/coerced to bowl the no-ball.

I am beginning to think a couple of posters here are being deliberately obtuse. Once again

THERE IS CLEAR AND IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT ASIF AND AMIR RECEIVED MONEY FROM MAJEED.

Not even the players themselves are denying this anymore. A text from Amir was found on Majeed's phone, ffs. Look at my post from a page or two ago for some of the relevant news articles.

And even if they had not received any money, it would make no difference. The key point is that they bowled a no-ball deliberately. The fact that someone asked you to do it is no excuse, regardless of who it was.

 

[social]

I am beginning to think a couple of posters here are being deliberately obtuse. Once again

THERE IS CLEAR AND IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT ASIF AND AMIR RECEIVED MONEY FROM MAJEED.
Not even the players themselves are denying this anymore. A text from Amir was found on Majeed's phone, ffs. Look at my post from a page or two ago for some of the relevant news articles.

And even if they had not received any money, it would make no difference. The key point is that they bowled a no-ball deliberately. The fact that someone asked you to do it is no excuse, regardless of who it was.

Sorry mate but those links, apart from the headline, say no such thing nor does the ICC's judgement

And a deliberate no ball is not a criminal offence or else literally hundreds of cricketers would've been in deep **** over the years

Fact is that the burden of proof required in a hearing such as this is undoubtedly lower than in a court of law so the ICC played the odds and largely made their decision based upon the NOTW tape

 

[fredfertang]

If there is clear and irrefutable evidence they will be convicted and rightly so - in the meantime I'm going to keep an open mind - in my experience it is very dangerous to take hearsay at face value, which is why it always used to be inadmissible

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I am beginning to think a couple of posters here are being deliberately obtuse. Once again

THERE IS CLEAR AND IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT ASIF AND AMIR RECEIVED MONEY FROM MAJEED.

Not even the players themselves are denying this anymore. A text from Amir was found on Majeed's phone, ffs. Look at my post from a page or two ago for some of the relevant news articles.

And even if they had not received any money, it would make no difference. The key point is that they bowled a no-ball deliberately. The fact that someone asked you to do it is no excuse, regardless of who it was.

Your source isn't very reliable. First of all it mentions that Amir confessed to Afridi and the PCB admin . I wouldn't read much into it because Afridi hasn't come forward and even if he did I wouldn't believe him. As for the bank accounts, well the complication is that Majeed was their agent so isn't he entitled to do that?

Where is the clear evidence that Amir and Asif received money. The marked bills were found on Butt and if you are talking as if this wasn't the first incident then wouldn't Kakmal and co have also been prosecuted if there had been evidence for previous incidents. Also your source mentions that Amir was coerced; and as Fred said earlier, this does play a part in the proceedings.

What text are you talking about? The only thing I know is that there was a phone conversation in which Amir asked if he should do it. This could relate to anything because remember he was their agent.

You don't have to insult me.

 

[smash84]

Smalishah84, I don't really understand your position regarding this issue. On the one hand you agree with posters who suggest the harshest possible punishment i.e. jail time. While on the other hand you agree with posters who hate Amir but want him to play because he was good. Please stop playing this tennis match and make up your mind. Personally Amir shouldn't play even after 5 years for what he did no matter how good he was.

You don't understand my position and accuse me of playing a test match. Look at your own statements. For the last umpteen number of pages you seem to suggest that things have been very harsh for Amir and you yourself believe the part in bold

 

[social]

Link with gambling can't be played as each-way bet

Agree with this and, unfortunately, CA allows the same thing

 

[Agent Nationaux]

You don't understand my position and accuse me of playing a test match. Look at your own statements. For the last umpteen number of pages you seem to suggest that things have been very harsh for Amir and you yourself believe the part in bold

You haven't really read my posts have you. Banning for life is an acceptable punishment because it's related to what he did, but prosecuting him isn't. My initial concern was that Amir would have to spend all his money on a lawyer for the criminal case and so would probably go back to Pakistan dirt poor. However Fred pointed out that if he is not guilty then he would be reimbursed. Despite all this I still think him being prosecuted isn't fair.

 

[Blaze 18]

Your source isn't very reliable. First of all it mentions that Amir confessed to Afridi and the PCB admin . I wouldn't read much into it because Afridi hasn't come forward and even if he did I wouldn't believe him. As for the bank accounts, well the complication is that Majeed was their agent so isn't he entitled to do that?

Where is the clear evidence that Amir and Asif received money. The marked bills were found on Butt and if you are talking as if this wasn't the first incident then wouldn't Kakmal and co have also been prosecuted if there had been evidence for previous incidents. Also your source mentions that Amir was coerced; and as Fred said earlier, this does play a part in the proceedings.

What text are you talking about? The only thing I know is that there was a phone conversation in which Amir asked if he should do it. This could relate to anything because remember he was their agent.

You don't have to insult me.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah, my bad blaze. I meant that if the source was reliable then it also mentions about him being coerced.

 

[Debris]

Sorry mate but those links, apart from the headline, say no such thing nor does the ICC's judgement

And a deliberate no ball is not a criminal offence or else literally hundreds of cricketers would've been in deep **** over the years

Fact is that the burden of proof required in a hearing such as this is undoubtedly lower than in a court of law so the ICC played the odds and largely made their decision based upon the NOTW tape

If those ones were not clear enough for you, how about this one

We did receive money

or this one

Accepts money from bookie

From what I can tell, there is an argument over what the payments were for but not that payments were received. The prosecution still has to demonstrate the link between this and the actions in the Lord's test. The fact that the ICC has issued bans suggests that the evidence is fairly strong although the burden of proof in a criminal case is likely to be stricter than it is for the ICC.

Personally, I hope they do not receive any jail time. It is a serious issue/crime in cricket but not in life. The bans should be sufficient.

 

[pup11]

Also I don't know about you guys but I can see all these three tainted players coming back into international cricket after a break of maybe 12-18 months. They most certainly would appeal against this ban and given the way things go in Pakistan cricket they might prove themselves innocent.

I mean Riaz is the only player in the history of the sport to get caught on camera accepting money from a bookmaker, and if that doesn't make him guilty then there is no way anyone else is guilty either.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

If those ones were not clear enough for you, how about this one

We did receive money

or this one

Accepts money from bookie

From what I can tell, there is an argument over what the payments were for but not that payments were received. The prosecution still has to demonstrate the link between this and the actions in the Lord's test. The fact that the ICC has issued bans suggests that the evidence is fairly strong although the burden of proof in a criminal case is likely to be stricter than it is for the ICC.



Personally, I hope they do not receive any jail time. It is a serious issue/crime in cricket but not in life. The bans should be sufficient.

Hindustan times and sponsorship deals It will be very hard to prove the money was for anything else. The ICC's hearing wasn't a criminal case, so they could issue bans on the lightest of evidence. Its completely different for the CPS because the decision could result in jail time. I am glad that someone finally agrees with me about the jail time.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Also I don't know about you guys but I can see all these three tainted players coming back into international cricket after a break of maybe 12-18 months. They most certainly would appeal against this ban and given the way things go in Pakistan cricket they might prove themselves innocent.

I mean Riaz is the only player in the history of the sport to get caught on camera accepting money from a bookmaker, and if that doesn't make him guilty then there is no way anyone else is guilty either.

The appeal shouldn't really help anyone of them because the CAS can't reduce the ICC's minimum sentence of 5 years. If they were banned for lets say 7 years then CAS could reduce the sentence to the minimum (for the ICC it's 5 years). However the panel did say that 5 years was harsh on Amir, which might be interesting, but lets wait and see.

 

[Blaze 18]

In my mind there is no doubt that Salman Butt is guilty. Forget the proofs and everything, when he was first asked about the whole spot-fixing saga, his reply was "we are innocent until proven guilty" (or something along those lines anyway). Would an innocent man have said that ? Mohammad Aamer is the most interesting case. I reckon he was persuaded to do it by Salman Butt. Mohammad Asif probably has the best case of the three, because his foot was only just over the line. His past misdemeanours mean that I am not going to give him the benefit of the doubt, however.

I don't think they should be thrown behind bars for this. I don't think they will be either; I am sure any decent lawyer can get them off on some technicality or the other. I do support the bans though, they made a grave mistake and deserve to pay for it. To claim that they have been discriminated against because they are Pakistanis, as Social is doing, is bordering on ridiculous. What was Shahid Afridi's punishment for that ball biting episode again ? A measly two T20 internationals. It seems to be that some people are reluctant to accept that what the trio have done is serious. You can't just screw with your country and the game itself and expect to get away with it.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

In my mind there is no doubt that Salman Butt is guilty. Forget the proofs and everything, when he was first asked about the whole spot-fixing saga, his reply was "we are innocent until proven guilty" (or something along those lines anyway). Would an innocent man have said that ? Mohammad Aamer is the most interesting case. I reckon he was persuaded to do it by Salman Butt. Mohammad Asif probably has the best case of the three, because his foot was only just over the line. His past misdemeanours mean that I am not going to give him the benefit of the doubt, however.

I don't think they should be thrown behind bars for this. I don't think they will be either; I am sure any decent lawyer can get them off on some technicality or the other. I do support the bans though, they made a grave mistake and deserve to pay for it. To claim that they have been discriminated against because they are Pakistanis, as Social is doing, is bordering on ridiculous. What was Shahid Afridi's punishment for that ball biting episode again ? A measly two T20 internationals. It seems to be that some people are reluctant to accept that what the trio have done is serious. You can't just screw with your country and the game itself and expect to get away with it.

Agree with you on everything. However you forgot Mazhar Majeed.

 

[Xuhaib]

Also I don't know about you guys but I can see all these three tainted players coming back into international cricket after a break of maybe 12-18 months. They most certainly would appeal against this ban and given the way things go in Pakistan cricket they might prove themselves innocent.

I mean Riaz is the only player in the history of the sport to get caught on camera accepting money from a bookmaker, and if that doesn't make him guilty then there is no way anyone else is guilty either.

I don't know how can you bring Pakistan cricket in to it when all along its the ICC which has been handling the case and if they get away it will be on the basis of the verdict given by international court of arbitration for sports in Switzerland. again nothing to do with PCB and lol at the Riaz reference Riaz was never caught on camera taking money don't make things as they come to your head.

 

[slowfinger]

It's a bit of a slap in the face. But Amir can't really say cricket is my life and then start abusing the game. It's like saying I love my life and then start taking drugs and smoking. He is a bit guilty there to be honest. But his age should come into acount here whatever you say. Even with a ban he will come back relatively young. So he should take his punishment like a lad. Every one makes mistakes so he should learn and move on. Then he can come back and make a bigger impact than ever. He can still learn from this. His life isn't over yet.
Asif just won't learn. So many controversies that I can't feel sorry for him. When he got accused of drugs he said he can learn. WELL, so much for learning isn't it? He is world class and must act like a world class guy. We have him another chance and he blows it like normal. Only himself to blame there. 7 years means he'll be a Shoaib Akhtar . Bye Bye mate.
Butt is just crap anyway.. I don't even feel sorry for him.
But if the three got bans I think Riaz shouldn't have got away. He was proved that he took the money so I don't know what his defence coulda been.
Oh well, Pakistan will be a better team whatever happens over the next 5 years, no matter of results, that is all that really matters, right?

 

[smash84]

Well said Slowfinger

 

[vcs]