*Official* - Pakistan in New Zealand 2010/2011

[Athlai]

Ryder was actually supposed to play but injured his hand. So it'd have been reasonably close to a full strength team. Agree with your side entirely tbh, want Baz back up the order but I'll understand if he stays where he is.

 

[Prince EWS]

Guptill should definitely open the batting. If you want McCullum opening too (I do as well itbt) then Ryder should go down the order.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Yep, no problems here with Guptil opening and Ryder in the middle order. I'd rather have Ryder not opening than McCullum not opening.

 

[Days of Grace]

Another advantage to McCullum down the order is that he has the ability to turn singles into two's.

Ryder might find that difficult.

I don't think they will change the opening pair after Ryder and Guptill's great show in the first ODI. Also, Wright would lose a lot of face by admitting defeat and moving McCullum back up the order. As much as some posters want it to, it won't happen.

Oram needs a massive performance in the next two games, tbh.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Yeah, but who cares if he can turn singles into twos if we are 90/5 after 25 overs. I'd rather be 90/2 after 15 and have an extra 10 overs.

 

[Hurricane]

The only thing good about yesterday was Taylor's screamer.

260 was always 50-60 runs too short on such a road. Of course, Pakistan did their best to make the morons around me think that we had a chance to win. At least if I was at home I could change channel or do something else. $33 entry, and the beer ran out at the innings break.


Stop experimenting. After the tour of the sub-continent we didn't need tinkering with the order, we just needed confidence. What better way than to send your top side out there 6 times in a row and play in your home conditions.

McCullum should be opening. What's the point of having a finisher when you don't have a start? Basically we are thinking that our top 6 will get us through to around 160-180/5 after 35 overs, and then have McCullum in for the final PP. I'd rather have McCullum in for 15 overs of PP than 5 towards the end, at least he can't get out before it's taken if he opens.

McCullum
Ryder
Guptil
Taylor
Styris
Franklin
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Bennett

Of course, it won't happen because the men with power in NZC are incompetent fools.

Numerous posters on this site were calling for Bmac to drop down the order - and they got their wish. All of your reasons are sound.

The logic at the time to drop him down the order was a) we are losing with him opening b) he hasn't scored many centuries from opening

The second reason sounds lame. But it was prevalent.

I reckon Taylor should go to 4 again.

 

[NZ Guy]

Haha yeah noticed that too, be careful what you wish for!

 

[Howsie]

The logic at the time to drop him down the order was a) we are losing with him opening b) he hasn't scored many centuries from opening

The second reason sounds lame. But it was prevalent.

I reckon Taylor should go to 4 again.

It's not lame at all, hundreds at the top of the order win you games and Brendon McCullum wasn't producing them. Since moving back to the top of the order in 2007 McCullum's only managed two hundreds, one of which was scored against Ireland. Surely people aren't content with that sort of output?

Anywho if I had to guess it probably wasn't the lack of hundreds that cost him his opening position but more so a lack of runs, since the start of 09 McCullum's averaged 28 with the bat opening and only been striking at 84, that is downright terrible as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Athlai]

Personally have always felt Ryder would be a quality #3.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Numerous posters? I'm pretty sure it was a minority, mostly retards.

35.16 @ S/R 93

Yeah, I'm not content with that. We have a lot of players in our history who have done better........

Like our greatest one day opener ever....

<3

Oh yeah, he only averaged 34.89 @ 72.72


But oh my godzzz, he crossed the arbitrary figure of great innings-ness a whole 14 times over 186 innings (13.3 innings per 100). So lets ignore how many runs they averaged or how fast they scored those runs, I'd much rather go with that "OMG, 3 figures is way better than 2" thingee. Yay!

So lets continue to bat him down at 6/7 so he can come in and WIN GAMES for us.

 

[Mike5181]

To be fair the bowlers Astle faced throughout his career were a decent amount better than what McCullum has had to deal with over the last 3 years or so.

 

[Flem274*]

More importantly, a McCullum 40-60 will be a lot quicker and more valuable than Ryder and Guptill getting their compulsory 30s.

Jesse Ryder has a domestic List A average of just 20.80. Now obviously he's a better player than that, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ryder's record in ODIs plummeted if he continues to open, because while one can suspect he only bats well domestically when he can be bothered, that record is **** and I'm fairly sure he has played largely as an opener for CD and Wellington.

 

[Flem274*]

To be fair the bowlers Astle faced throughout his career were a decent amount better than what McCullum has had to deal with over the last 3 years or so.

Nah, ODI bowling has always been strong. Scores are much higher than Astle's day too, so there's more scoreboard pressure.

And McCullum and Guptill are the best ODI openers in the squad.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Spelling it out for the slow people.....

100s aren't the be all and end all!

We have only had one batsman in our whole ODI history to convert at a decent rate.


And lmao at NZ being fined for slow over rate after Pakistan travelling at a snails pace for the whole tour.

 

[Hurricane]

@Howsie - if people wanted to make an argument around 50s I could deal with it. He only has 12 of them out 75 innings opening. I reckon you can expect someone to score a 50 for you if they are a good batsman.

We are happy with Taylor's batting in the team (except for recently) and he only has 3 centuries. Why doesn't he get heat for this.

Anyways your view is very popular and most pundits agree with it. So I think I will be alone in my view.

Edit - except for KiwiNinja - agree with what you wrote.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

In NZ cricket, the popular opinion is generally the stupidest one, tbh.

 

[Flem274*]

@Howsie - if people wanted to make an argument around 50s I could deal with it. He only has 12 of them out 75 innings opening. I reckon you can expect someone to score a 50 for you if they are a good batsman.

We are happy with Taylor's batting in the team (except for recently) and he only has 3 centuries. Why doesn't he get heat for this.

Because our batsmen aren't very good. Taylor isn't copping it because there is no one better.

 

[_Ed_]

And you get the impression that Taylor's slump will end at some point. And when it does, it'll end in style.

 

[Mike5181]

Nah, ODI bowling has always been strong. Scores are much higher than Astle's day too, so there's more scoreboard pressure.

And McCullum and Guptill are the best ODI openers in the squad.

Yeah, its more consistent than test bowlers. I always just remember Astle having to face up to

McGrath/Lee/Bracken/Gillespie/Kasprowicz/Warne from Australia
Vaas/Malinga from Sri Lanka
Pollock/Donald from South Africa
Akram/Younis/Ahktar from Pakistan

When you actually look at just those there have been some seriously good bowlers over the last 15 years.

I think McCullum/Guptill/Ryder are all quality openers. Ryder's List A average is terrible! I remember people going on about that when he was first selected.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah, its more consistent than test bowlers. I always just remember Astle having to face up to

McGrath/Lee/Bracken/Gillespie/Kasprowicz/Warne from Australia
Vaas/Malinga from Sri Lanka
Pollock/Donald from South Africa
Akram/Younis/Ahktar from Pakistan

When you actually look at just those there have been some seriously good bowlers over the last 15 years.

I think McCullum/Guptill/Ryder are all quality openers. Ryder's List A average is terrible! I remember people going on about that when he was first selected.

McCullum has faced many of the bowlers above, and the Pakistani trio spent a lot of their time injured.

Also, since McCullum started opening he's faced plenty of good bowlers himself. Cbf naming names cause I'm a lazy ****, but he must have faced all the test nations by now.