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*Official* India in South Africa

Dissector

Dissector

International Debutant
Cevno said:
And Pathan has played some quick crucial innings in India.
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Can you give examples of these? As far as I can tell his handful of significant knocks have mostly been in easy situations where India was already cruising to a big total and would probably have won anyway. There was the hundred of course but against fairly woeful opposition. I would say his fifty the other day is the only significant knock against quality opposition in a difficult situation. And I doubt it would have happened if Smith had taken the spinners off. There is just very little evidence to suggest that Pathan is going to be a consisent performer against quality teams
 
Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
vcs said:
About Yusuf, it's harsh to say NZ should not count as a success for him just because they are weak... they would have won that match with ease if it were not for him FFS. It was a quality knock. Atleast he has guided India to two successful chases recently.
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Exactly.
 
kingkallis

kingkallis

International Coach
vcs said:
About Yusuf, it's harsh to say NZ should not count as a success for him just because they are weak... they would have won that match with ease if it were not for him FFS. It was a quality knock. Atleast he has guided India to two successful chases recently.
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So true!

He has won us two games from almost impossible situations and he is a proven match winner. We surely can keep him as No.7
 
Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Dissector said:
Can you give examples of these? As far as I can tell his handful of significant knocks have mostly been in easy situations where India was already cruising to a big total and would probably have won anyway. There was the hundred of course but against fairly woeful opposition. I would say his fifty the other day is the only significant knock against quality opposition in a difficult situation. And I doubt it would have happened if Smith had taken the spinners off. There is just very little evidence to suggest that Pathan is going to be a consisent performer against quality teams
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But that is one of his roles in the team too.

When in India are in a commanding position ,he comes in and put them into a more commanding position with quick scoring not caring about his wicket.

India's bowling attack is not that strong ,so those Extra 20/25 runs are crucial to put the game beyond doubt.

Here are some crucial innings he has played -

2nd ODI: India v England at Indore, Nov 17, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

4th ODI: India v New Zealand at Bangalore, Dec 7, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

3rd ODI: South Africa v India at Cape Town, Jan 18, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Besides these he has played innings as described above where he made a strong position,even stronger -

2nd ODI: India v South Africa at Gwalior, Feb 24, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

1st ODI: India v New Zealand at Guwahati, Nov 28, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

4th ODI: India v New Zealand at Bangalore, Dec 7, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

1st ODI: West Indies v India at Kingston, Jun 26, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

And considering he has only had 20 finished innings ,it is decent and even in those most of the time he is coming in the slog overs which is his role plus to give momentum at a crucial time.
 
Dissector

Dissector

International Debutant
Cevno said:
But that is one of his roles in the team too.

When in India are in a commanding position ,he comes in and put them into a more commanding position with quick scoring not caring about his wicket.
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The problem is he doesn't do this consistently enough to justify a place. He will score the occasional 30-40 odd but that will be balanced by several failures. His average against SA is 24 and his average against SL is 21. I would say that is far more relevant to a WC campaign than that hundred against NZ in a dead rubber.

His 50 against SA was indeed a good innings but let's not forget that he got out at a crucial point leaving India in a difficult position and he looked pretty ordinary against the pacers anyway. I doubt future captains will make the mistake of bowling spinners to him in that kind of situation again and our likely opponents in the semi and final have plenty of quality pace bowlers.
 
Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Playing pacers in India is different to playing pacers in South Africa though.

Besides he did well agains the pacers last innings. Played two beautiful cuts.

We have similar players to Kohli and Gambhir but not to him ,if we drop him.

Besides it seems all the teams will atleast be relying on atleast 2 medium/slow bowlers plus spinners.

Srilanka are bound to play rely on spinners for 20 overs.

So will England with Yardy and Swann probably.

Australia have Smith,Clarke and Hauritz.

While south africa may be the only one with one spinner ,though i think Yusuf should not have much troubles against Kallis.
And they may play 2 spinners too if they play Botha as a all rounder.
 
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Dissector

Dissector

International Debutant
OK, but Pathan has done little against SL spinners in the sub-continent so I don't know that we can rely on him against good attacks even if they have two spinners. And if we are relying on him to finish games at no.7 we are probably talking about the last ten overs where he will probably face the two quality seam bowlers from various teams. Personally I am ambivalent about Pathan like I said the other day he does bring that X-factor but I just don't see him as a consistent performer. I guess we will have one more data point from the fifth game to decide.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Dissector said:
The problem is he doesn't do this consistently enough to justify a place. He will score the occasional 30-40 odd but that will be balanced by several failures. His average against SA is 24 and his average against SL is 21. I would say that is far more relevant to a WC campaign than that hundred against NZ in a dead rubber.

His 50 against SA was indeed a good innings but let's not forget that he got out at a crucial point leaving India in a difficult position and he looked pretty ordinary against the pacers anyway. I doubt future captains will make the mistake of bowling spinners to him in that kind of situation again and our likely opponents in the semi and final have plenty of quality pace bowlers.
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Yusuf has to be the reserve! Too inconsistent.
Kohli>Yuvraj>Raina>Yusuf
 
Dissector

Dissector

International Debutant
India were probably losing anyway but this new target is nearly impossible with four wickets. Everything to play for in the final game on Sunday.
 
Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
And going off again.

Why can't they just play in a little bit of drizzle.

Instead of this nonsense on and off then a inspection business.
 
Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
10.40 Game called off. South Africa win by 48 runs. So 2-2 and we go to decider on Sunday. Apparently, 90% chance of thunderstorms in Centurion on Sunday
 
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