Which cricketer has the most complete record?

[vcs]

He had an average of 42.4 in SA after the 2001 tour.

What was it like against SA overall? Probably crossed 40 only this year. He probably averaged around 75 in the five Tests he's played against them in 2010-11.

 

[centurymaker]

I agree that Tendy has the most complete record amongst batsmen. Averaging 40+ in all countries is just phenomenal. In fact had Tendy toured Pak in the last 3 years his averaging would have gone up a few points IMO.

Tendulkar
avgs 44.15 at home against Pak (14 innings)
avgs 40.25 away against Pak (13 innings)
Overall avg - 42.28
Since he hasn't played that many innings against Pakistan, 1 good away series against them would've pushed his overall avg up into the high 40's and the away avg into the early 50's.

 

[centurymaker]

What was it like against SA overall? Probably crossed 40 only this year. He probably averaged around 75 in the five Tests he's played against them in 2010-11.

It hadn't crossed 40 since very early on in his career. The closest he got to was 39.57, which was achieved after that Bloemfontein hundred.

 

[shankar]

Although I understand what you are saying I do not subscribe to conclusion. Across so many tests, years, and with respect to the difference in average there is surely a reason why one may be in one group (average slightly higher in one place than another) and why they may be in another (do terrible in one place and tremendously in another).

Of course. My point is obviously is not that the average is random. My point is that they can't be used as predictors like you did. A batsman doing poorly against an attack abroad than at home will result in the former average being significantly lower than the latter. There is absolutely no necessity for the averages to be in proportion to the bowling average of the attack in the two places. One has to make a statistical argument showing why this has to be the case before assuming its truth.

 

[Maximus0723]

It's because in comparison to the other great pacers who were contemporaries of McGrath, he doesn't have any particularly obvious weapons. Donald could swing it at pace, Wasim seemed to have complete mastery of the ball and could get it to swing and seam whereever he wanted it to go and Waqar had massive inswinging yorkers bowled at a fierce pace. Ambrose was pretty sharp as well. McGrath had none of those attributes, he just simply got great players out again and again and again and again, without the method or weakness he exploited being particularly obvious.

Mare paas banga hay, gaadi hay, property hay, jameen hay,....tere paas kya hay?
..............

Mare paas Ma hay!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

McGrath had da brainz.

 

[Ikki]

Of course. My point is obviously is not that the average is random. My point is that they can't be used as predictors like you did. A batsman doing poorly against an attack abroad than at home will result in the former average being significantly lower than the latter. There is absolutely no necessity for the averages to be in proportion to the bowling average of the attack in the two places. One has to make a statistical argument showing why this has to be the case before assuming its truth.

I don't think I quite catch what you mean.

You're saying there has to be a statistical argument to show why he is poor in India and great in Australia against India?

I am not sure I used it as a predictor. I said: it is a weird record, where Ponting averages 79 at home and 26 away against basically the same bowling attack throughout his career.

WRT to Ponting: he averages in the mid-50s (IIRC) against all other test teams away from home so he doesn't have a problem playing away. More specifically, he averages in the 60s against sub-continental teams away from home. With regard to India's bowling strength being spin, he averages 50 in matches including Murali and has fantastic records against most of the spinners of his time.

So, he doesn't have a problem away from home in general, or in particular the subcontinent, and neither will his prowess with spin explain his poor record in India.

WRT to India: they do much better at home than they do away. With regard to bowling in Australia, they are the 4th strongest visiting attack during Ponting's era.

If Ponting averaged 35 in India and 55 in Aus I'd be less puzzled. What do you think has been his problem in India?

 

[Furball]

Familiarity with home conditions, as well as India's bowling attack largely being unsuited for bowling in Australia is one reason.

As for his record in India, it's not that hard to explain. Without checking statsguru, I'm guessing Ponting's played maybe 12, 13 Tests in India? When for 3 of those Tests you've batted worse than Chris Martin, it's not suprising that his record is so poor. Missing all of the 2004 series with the exception of the Mumbai Test doesn't help his record either. I'm not a fan of cherry picking stats to make a player look as good as possible, but if you removed those 4 Tests from his record then he'd look decent in India without being outstanding, probably averaging between 35-40 (like I said, I cbf checking this, this is just a guess). This would indicate that Ponting by and large hasn't struggled in India as much as his record suggests. However, when such a significant minority of your performances in a country have been as bad as Ponting's 4 poor Tests in India, and without the presence of an epic series to counter balance those poor Tests, his record is going to look, perhaps unfairly, poor.

See also: Ian Bell's Ashes record, and Alistair Cook's Ashes record. Cook's record prior to the just concluded series was dreadful. Now, he has a very healthy Ashes average due to one epic series.

tbh

 

[Burgey]

If Ponting averaged 35 in India and 55 in Aus I'd be less puzzled. What do you think has been his problem in India?

 

[Ikki]

He is a reason, to an extent.

But even in games without him, Ponting still has a poor record in India. He averages 104 at home and 29 in India.

tbh

Again, true to an extent but let's him off a bit easy.

Ponting has played 25 innings in India alone...only past 50 6 times. There's too much of a sample there to just pick out series.

 

[bagapath]

WRT to Ponting: he averages in the mid-50s (IIRC) against all other test teams away from home so he doesn't have a problem playing away.

that is not true. he has a mediocre ashes record, averaging 44, both home and away. and if you include the neutral tests he played against pakistan his overall average in england is 41. he is not as good as some people imagine him to me.

 

[Ikki]

that is not true. he has a mediocre ashes record, averaging 44, both home and away. and if you include the neutral tests he played against pakistan his overall average in england is 41. he is not as good as some people imagine him to me.

Exactly how do neutral tests against Pakistan reflect on his Ashes record? Not relevant at all.

He averages 44 against England home and away, so I disagree. Prior to this last horror series, he was averaging 48.

 

[bagapath]

Exactly how do neutral tests against Pakistan reflect on his Ashes record? Not relevant at all.

He averages 44 against England home and away, so I disagree. Prior to this last horror series, he was averaging 48.

it means he doesn't average in the mid 50s in all away games as claimed by you. that was my point.

 

[Tom 1972]

You can only play against the available competition of the day.

The Don averaged:
98 at home
102 away

89 against England (a century 30% of his 63 innings with 7 not outs)
178 against India (66% from 6 hits, 2 not outs)
201 against SA (80% from 5 hits, 1 not out)
75 against WI (33% from 6 hits)

He slaughtered everyone he played against.

Pretty complete if you ask me.

 

[miscer]

this has probably already been said but forget averaging less than 30, malcolm marshall averages less than 23 against every country.

 

[smash84]

You can only play against the available competition of the day.

The Don averaged:
98 at home
102 away

89 against England (a century 30% of his 63 innings with 7 not outs)
178 against India (66% from 6 hits, 2 not outs)
201 against SA (80% from 5 hits, 1 not out)
75 against WI (33% from 6 hits)

He slaughtered everyone he played against.

Pretty complete if you ask me.

Almost every debate in this thread, as a given, does not include Bradman. He is just a statistical freak. Head and Shoulders above every one else.

this has probably already been said but forget averaging less than 30, malcolm marshall averages less than 23 against every country.

Macko rocks. What is his worst average and against which country?

 

[bagapath]

Macko rocks. What is his worst average and against which country?

22.51 against australia LOL


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52419.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

along with sachin (35+ batting avg against every opponent both home and away and with at least one century each home and away) macko can take a place at that special corner table where they can pat each other in the back saying they have ticked all the boxes necessary to be called all round successes in their respective professions.

 

[Ikki]

it means he doesn't average in the mid 50s in all away games as claimed by you. that was my point.

I meant overall average you pedant. Well, he's close to that anyway. Bar England (44) and India (29) he averages above 50 against the others. And don't you dare bring up 1 inning against Zimbabwe

 

[Tom 1972]

Almost every debate in this thread, as a given, does not include Bradman. He is just a statistical freak. Head and Shoulders above every one else.

Duly noted.

I think that Captaincy record is a bit of a factor too.

Not that I want to start another tedious Kallis thread, but how come he has never been first choice captain? Another reason Imran is an ATG cricketer.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

 

[smash84]

Duly noted.

I think that Captaincy record is a bit of a factor too.

Not that I want to start another tedious Kallis thread, but how come he has never been first choice captain? Another reason Imran is an ATG cricketer.

He probably didn't want the captaincy himself. Captaincy is a tough job and some big names have failed under its burden. Without captaincy it is easier to focus on one's own job.