Which cricketer has the most complete record?

[bagapath]

Isn't McGrath's record in Pakistan (and possibly Sri Lanka) over an equally small sample size?

agree. but he averaged 33 against new zealand and 31 against south africa in home matches over quite a few games and that is not good enough.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Marshall supposedly played in an era where it was much tougher for batsmen, therefore he must be penalised.

 

[smash84]

Glenn - Pakistan away
GS Chappell - England away ave 40, nitpicking though.
Hadlee - Pakistan away
Marshall - NZ away

From those 4 I'd go with Glenn.
124 tests, played vs 9 test nations,worst average vs SA 27.33.
Also Aus vs SA in Aus ave 31.
Outstanding record
Worst away ave vs Pakistan 31

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

I remembered from one of cricinfo's articles as well that Imran averaged sub 30 in all countries that he played, Imran played test matches in 7 countries and averaged sub 30 in all of them. Pretty stellar record as a bowler. Add to that his batting and captaincy and he has a pretty complete record

 

[vcs]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

I remembered from one of cricinfo's articles as well that Imran averaged sub 30 in all countries that he played, Imran played test matches in 7 countries and averaged sub 30 in all of them. Pretty stellar record as a bowler. Add to that his batting and captaincy and he has a pretty complete record

That is a very impressive and balanced record. Definite contender for mine.

 

[Howe_zat]

Marshall supposedly played in an era where it was much tougher for batsmen, therefore he must be penalised.

Yeah, but only because it was the era in which Marshall bowled.

 

[Howe_zat]

Throwing another name into the ring, what about Curtly Ambrose? Had an epic overall average (a smidge under 21), which actually improved away from home.

I am told that his great stat is that after his first slightly shaky series he never averaged more than 26 in a season for his whole career.

 

[smash84]

yep....amby is another one with sub 30 average in all countries that he played in

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[smash84]

yep....amby is another one with sub 30 average in all countries that he played in

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[bagapath]

Yeah, but only because it was the era in which Marshall bowled.

GI Joe sid that tongue in cheek "I think. But your response is spot on.

As for Ambrose... he averaged 38 against India. I dont think he is a contender.

 

[MrIncredible]

Marshall supposedly played in an era where it was much tougher for batsmen, therefore he must be penalised.

I hope this was in jest. Otherwise y is Marshall the only bowler from that era with such a

complete record. Answer, he was sumthing special aka the most complete fast bowler of

all time. PS Im not knockig u for ur opinion btw just trying to have a constructive

discussion.

 

[MrIncredible]

GI Joe sid that tongue in cheek "I think. But your response is spot on.

As for Ambrose... he averaged 38 against India. I dont think he is a contender.

Bagabath what about Imran? I think he averaged sub 30 home/away vs every1 (if I

remember)

 

[vcs]

I consider a >40 average for a batsman to be roughly equivalent to a <30 average for a bowler (it's a very rough measure, but there you go). For completeness, my criteria is a batsman should average >40 against every opponent + every venue, and a bowler should average <30 everywhere against everyone. It looks like there are more bowlers who satisfy this criteria though. Many of the ATG batsmen seem to fall just short of 40 somewhere against someone. Even Tendulkar only pushed his average in/against SA to 40+ only after this series. Any thoughts on why there seem to be more bowlers with a balanced record?

 

[MrIncredible]

Dont know but i suspect its as simple as it only takes one lack in concentration, one piece of

brilliant fielding (etc) for a batsman to be out. Bowlers get wickets even with poor balls. Otherwise

I dont know

 

[vcs]

It's also probably harder to keep an ATG bowler out of the scoresheet even on a mediocre day, especially if he's playing for a very strong team. It might happen that his teammates dismiss most of the batsmen, he comes back to clean up the tail and ends up with 3-80, which is still a <30 average.

 

[Teja.]

Throwing another name into the ring, what about Curtly Ambrose? Had an epic overall average (a smidge under 21), which actually improved away from home.

I am told that his great stat is that after his first slightly shaky series he never averaged more than 26 in a season for his whole career.

Was bad against India through out tbh. Played 9 games, took 15 wickets @ 38.26. While his average of 'only' 30 in 96 might appear to be good, He barely took any wickets in the series. Obviously a very complete record, but not one as good as Hadlee, Marshall or McG, who did not have a particular bogey team.

Also while that might be true, It should be remembered that apart from his first season, His career was a decade long, While McG and Wasim might have more than one 26+ season, They probably still do have as many seasons averaging under 26 as him due to their longevity and that shouldn't count against them.

 

[bagapath]

I consider a >40 average for a batsman to be roughly equivalent to a <30 average for a bowler (it's a very rough measure, but there you go). For completeness, my criteria is a batsman should average >40 against every opponent + every venue, and a bowler should average <30 everywhere against everyone. It looks like there are more bowlers who satisfy this criteria though. Many of the ATG batsmen seem to fall just short of 40 somewhere against someone. Even Tendulkar only pushed his average in/against SA to 40+ only after this series. Any thoughts on why there seem to be more bowlers with a balanced record?

but he has pushed it enough so that he averages 46 in SA and 42 overall against them, both comfortably over the 40 mark. i dont think any other batsman is even come close to averaging 40+ in every country.

my top 5 picks for this thread would be tendulkar, marshall, g.chappell, border and imran. I dont think any of these cricketers would have major regrets about their career regarding specific opponents. ponting and warne would give anything to have at least a face saving record in india. sachin wanted to do well so desperately against SA till last year. but four centuries in six tests vs steyn and co have sorted out that issue. ambrose, again, wasnt great against india. donald wasnt so hot against australia. murali was horrendous in australia. kallis has his weak spots in england and anywhere against SL. lara and miandad were very good overseas as opposed to great at home. it is so difficult to do well against all opponents that i am not surprised that the most acclaimed batsman (sachin) and fast bowler (macko) of the last 25 years have made it to the top of this list.

 

[vcs]

but he has pushed it enough so that he averages 46 in SA and 42 overall against them, both comfortably over the 40 mark. i dont think any other batsman is even come close to averaging 40+ in every country.

my top 5 picks for this thread would be tendulkar, marshall, g.chappell, border and imran

Border is in the 30's against SA, IIRC.

 

[bagapath]

Border is in the 30's against SA, IIRC.

same issue as marshall's. too little also he played them at the fag end.

 

[smash84]

Was bad against India through out tbh. Played 9 games, took 15 wickets @ 38.26. While his average of 'only' 30 in 96 might appear to be good, He barely took any wickets in the series. Obviously a very complete record, but not one as good as Hadlee, Marshall or McG, who did not have a particular bogey team.

Also while that might be true, It should be remembered that apart from his first season, His career was a decade long, While McG and Wasim might have more than one 26+ season, They probably still do have as many seasons averaging under 26 as him due to their longevity and that shouldn't count against them.

But Wasim's record against england is not that great IIRC.

but he has pushed it enough so that he averages 46 in SA and 42 overall against them, both comfortably over the 40 mark. i dont think any other batsman is even come close to averaging 40+ in every country.

my top 5 picks for this thread would be tendulkar, marshall, g.chappell, border and imran. I dont think any of these cricketers would have major regrets about their career regarding specific opponents. ponting and warne would give anything to have at least a face saving record in india. sachin wanted to do well so desperately against SA till last year. but four centuries in six tests vs steyn and co have sorted out that issue. ambrose, again, wasnt great against india. donald wasnt so hot against australia. murali was horrendous in australia. kallis has his weak spots in england and anywhere against SL. lara and miandad were very good overseas as opposed to great at home. it is so difficult to do well against all opponents that i am not surprised that the most acclaimed batsman (sachin) and fast bowler (macko) of the last 25 years have made it to the top of this list.

I agree that Tendy has the most complete record amongst batsmen. Averaging 40+ in all countries is just phenomenal. In fact had Tendy toured Pak in the last 3 years his averaging would have gone up a few points IMO.

I just looked at Greg Chappell too. Outstanding record there.

By the way I mentioned earlier that Imran played in 7 countries and had sub 30 bowling average in all of them.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Add to that the fact that he has a batting average of more than 35 in 5 of the countries is just phenomenal (although obviously the amount of runs scored is not that great). He is just dire in SL and WI though.

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I was looking at Richard Hadlee's record and it is pretty impressive although his average in Pakistan is quite un-hadlee. Dennis Lillee, McGrath, Hadlee. All of them got their averages ruined in Pakistan.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[centurymaker]

I consider a >40 average for a batsman to be roughly equivalent to a <30 average for a bowler (it's a very rough measure, but there you go). For completeness, my criteria is a batsman should average >40 against every opponent + every venue, and a bowler should average <30 everywhere against everyone. It looks like there are more bowlers who satisfy this criteria though. Many of the ATG batsmen seem to fall just short of 40 somewhere against someone. Even Tendulkar only pushed his average in/against SA to 40+ only after this series. Any thoughts on why there seem to be more bowlers with a balanced record?

He had an average of 42.4 in SA after the 2001 tour.