Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes

[morgieb]

Still reckon Hughes should just play his natural game. And also should get back in form.

 

[Top_Cat]

I see no reason whatsoever to continue picking Hughes. He's not even close to being the man most likely to make runs in the next match and given he's quite clearly still in the process of trying to build his own game in order to make best use of his phenomenal ability, looking dodgy at the top of the order while the world points and laughs will do his development no good at all. I'm 100% with Goughy/PEWS on picking a team purely for the present but even if I wasn't, throwing Hughes in the test side when his technique's a mess can't possibly be the best way to getting the most out of him long-term.

Ideally, but there's no-one else to pick while Kat and Rogers are injured, especially with the Victorian Batsman Selection Ban in effect. The only other plausible options are picking Marsh to open (in Tests, no thanks) or throwing Khawaja up to do it.

But then, of course, who bats at 3? Anyone who says Clarke needs an uppercut. Long-term, perhaps Watto will probably bat 3 so perhaps that's an option, especially if he's to be given more bowling to do (the current workload isn't sustainable). Might be a bit de-stabilising to swap them now.

Agree it's a problem, though. I'm all for sticking with young/developing players but at some point they do need to be earning their spot or, at the very least, feel like they are. Just giving it to them with no consequences for failure hasn't fixed anything ever.

 

[howardj]

Usman a better bet at the top of the order IMO

SL

Watson
Usman
Clarke
Hussey
Ponting
Smith
Paine/Haddin
Hauritz
Harris
Pattinson
Bollinger

Making up the squad: Ferguson, O'Keefe, Copeland, Siddle

 

[Top_Cat]

*uppercut*

 

[TumTum]

Still reckon Hughes should just play his natural game. And also should get back in form.

So should our entire team

 

[Spark]

*uppercut*

Agreed though

 

[Top_Cat]

In all seriousness, Ponting then Smith at 5 then 6 fills me with dread coming in against the spinners.

 

[Uppercut]

Ideally, but there's no-one else to pick while Kat and Rogers are injured, especially with the Victorian Batsman Selection Ban in effect. The only other plausible options are picking Marsh to open (in Tests, no thanks) or throwing Khawaja up to do it.

But then, of course, who bats at 3? Anyone who says Clarke needs an uppercut. Long-term, perhaps Watto will probably bat 3 so perhaps that's an option, especially if he's to be given more bowling to do (the current workload isn't sustainable). Might be a bit de-stabilising to swap them now.

Agree it's a problem, though. I'm all for sticking with young/developing players but at some point they do need to be earning their spot or, at the very least, feel like they are. Just giving it to them with no consequences for failure hasn't fixed anything ever.

Mmm, the first line of my post should have read, "I see no reason to continue picking Hughes once Katich and Rogers are fit again." Presumably they will be by the next time Australia are playing a test.

Even if they aren't, there are likely to be better options. It was a pretty rare circumstance that Australia had no other opening options when Katich broke down because they typically have quite a few players in that position that you wouldn't back against making a few runs in tests if they were in a bit of form.

 

[Spark]

In all seriousness, Ponting then Smith at 5 then 6 fills me with dread coming in against the spinners.

Yeah that's fair. Clarke/Hussey an infinitely better bet.

 

[Top_Cat]

Mmm, the first line of my post should have read, "I see no reason to continue picking Hughes once Katich and Rogers are fit again." Presumably they will be by the next time Australia are playing a test.

Even if they aren't, there are likely to be better options. It was a pretty rare circumstance that Australia had no other opening options when Katich broke down because they typically have quite a few players in that position that you wouldn't back against making a few runs in tests if they were in a bit of form.

Yeah but it's that dire in the now, I reckon. Have a look at the current Shield line-ups and who's doing well, the opening batsman cupboard is looking a bit bare.

SA: Smith/Moffatt/Cooper/Harris - just say no.

Vic: Quiney/Hill - good players both but no (or in Hill's case, not yet).

NSW: Jaques/Maddinson - Jaques no, Maddinson looks great but he's only just getting through his first season for NSW.

QLD: Broad/Townsend - see SA

WA: Robinson/Davis - see SA (although I'm a bit of a Davis fan)

Tas: Wells/Cosgrove/Cowan - Wells no, Cosgrove shouldn't play Tests as an opening bat (in my opinion), Cowan maybe.

Some with potential, most solid state players, none of them you'd pick above Hughes/Kat/Rogers even now, tbh.

 

[Prince EWS]

Mmm, the first line of my post should have read, "I see no reason to continue picking Hughes once Katich and Rogers are fit again." Presumably they will be by the next time Australia are playing a test.

Even if they aren't, there are likely to be better options. It was a pretty rare circumstance that Australia had no other opening options when Katich broke down because they typically have quite a few players in that position that you wouldn't back against making a few runs in tests if they were in a bit of form.

Australia IMO really don't have any better options than Hughes to open if Rogers and Katich are injured, at the moment, unless Jaques or Klinger miraculously find form and end the Shield season with a bang.

I'd considering opening with Khawaja I suppose, but that'd be a very big call, and I want him at three in my team anyway so it'd mess up the rest of a new-look lineup.

Katich and Rogers will be fit so it's a bit of a moot point, but beyond them and Watson, it really is just Hughes.

 

[howardj]

There's no perfect team given our current predicament. And it's very easy to mock other peoples' lineups. I think the important thing is to establish who from the young batsmen is worth investing in. For mine, Usman and Smith stand out as two players who should be given a long run. Hughes on the other hand I think needs to get his head together as much as his technique.

Having estalished your best six, I would not get too hung up on where precisely in the order they bat and whether they're a perfect fit for a particular position. We don't really have that luxury.

And calls to bring in Rogers...jesus christ man.

 

[Spark]

When the position that players bat makes a big difference to their performance, I would.

 

[Top_Cat]

Klinger's only really scored runs in FC cricket not opening too. Seems to have molded himself more into a bloke who looks for his pet shots early rather than bunting the new ball.

Rate him against spin though so there's that. Looks beautiful using his feet playing inside out through cover.

 

[Prince EWS]

Klinger's only really scored runs in FC cricket not opening too. Seems to have molded himself more into a bloke who looks for his pet shots early rather than bunting the new ball.

Rate him against spin though so there's that. Looks beautiful using his feet playing inside out through cover.

Yeah, I agree. Still though, if he was averaging 70 at #3 for South Australia again this season I'd think about playing him ahead of Hughes as opening injury cover, even if only for the fact that being a backup isn't really ideal for Hughes at the moment - he'd be far better off either in the team or out of it IMO.

 

[howardj]

When the position that players bat makes a big difference to their performance, I would.

Correlation does not always equal causation. The folk who argue that Clarke must bat at five and never bat at four because of his record in each position....I think is madness.

As he says, and as you know if you've played cricket yourself, there is very little difference between batting four or five, and no difference in mental approach.

Whether Clarke suceeds in the number three position (which I have slated him for, as he is our best batsman) will be more down to whether the openers lay a platform than any other factor IMO.

 

[Top_Cat]

Personally, Ponting's still the best 3 in the country and I'd advocate him playing on but not as captain. Khawaja's obviously shown good potential but not enough to knock a monster like Ponting off for good. Reckon the time off he's having will be good for him to re-examine how he plays (no hooks before 30) and come back strong in more of your Boon at number 3 type.

 

[Uppercut]

Not keen on Cosgrove either but I think if it came to it I'd probably sooner play him than Hughes. I have no faith in Hughes at all though.

The problem with picking players out of the Sheffield Shield is that so few matches are played that it's unlikely that a player you consider of adequate class is also in adequate form at the immediate moment someone is required.

 

[Spark]

Hmm. Well, the fact remains that thus far Clarke has been one of our best-ever #5s and one of our worst-ever #4s.

 

[Burgey]

There's no perfect team given our current predicament. And it's very easy to mock other peoples' lineups. I think the important thing is to establish who from the young batsmen is worth investing in. For mine, Usman and Smith stand out as two players who should be given a long run. Hughes on the other hand I think needs to get his head together as much as his technique.

Having estalished your best six, I would not get too hung up on where precisely in the order they bat and whether they're a perfect fit for a particular position. We don't really have that luxury.

And calls to bring in Rogers...jesus christ man.

Ed Cowan