Which cricketer has the most complete record?

[bagapath]

ha ha. welcome back ikki. sorry about ponting's career nose diving even further down in the recent past, mate. told you long back he is a modern day miandad. he is ending his career with a 53 average pretty close to javed's. goodluck to his future coaching career.

All he had to do was wait for Wasim, Waqar, Donald and Pollock to retire

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=runs;team=6;template=results;type=batting

sachin averaged 39 against wasim and waqar; and 38 against pollock and donald. he can live with that. no one else averages 35 + home and away against all opponents, with hundreds both home and away. and average 35+ even when you look at the stats against only the toughest bowlers, like in these cases.

he definitely is the player with the most complete record, the batting equivalent of malcolm marshall. 42+ against all teams overall. and 46+ in all countries (40+ in pakistan) is just too good.

/thread

 

[Bun]

All he had to do was wait for Wasim, Waqar, Donald and Pollock to retire

Steyn? Morkel? Averaging 81 in a series where only Gambir managed to average more than 40?

 

[Bun]

Apart from Steyn, S.Africa's attack is very average.

Not in SA. Morkel had the second best bowling figures of all bowlers from either side in the series. Lopsy statistically had a bad series, but he had many catches dropped off him. Harris I agree is the weak link.

 

[centurymaker]

Not really. Morkel is a quality bowler.

+ 1
He's unplayable half of the time in Southafrica.
He gets steep bounce and seam movement at pace.
It's sometimes very difficult to nick his deliveries btw because they're just too good for any batsmen.

 

[vcs]

Apart from Steyn, S.Africa's attack is very average.

Did you see the way Steyn bowled to him in this series? That alone, would have accounted for most batsmen. It did, actually.

 

[vcs]

TBF, while this series has statistically plugged a few holes in Tendulkar's resume, I can't believe anyone who saw this or this or his batting in WC 2003 would seriously doubt Tendulkar's prowess against fast bowling on SA wickets. Sure his average was low-ish, and he didn't put together big numbers across a series before now, but for me, his ability was never in doubt.

 

[Ikki]

Did you see the way Steyn bowled to him in this series? That alone, would have accounted for most batsmen. It did, actually.

Yes, I watched the series; Tendulkar was very good, so was Steyn. My comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek although it is true to an extent.

Re your point about some of his ODI knocks; he has been quality. However, in Tests, I think Tendulkar is a step down from Ponting in terms of playing against the best bowlers of pace - he also averages in the 30s with matches that include McGrath. I think he wouldn't have been as good had those bowlers continued to play in truth.

He was more a manager of great fast bowling than a dominator of them - undoubtedly a product of his environment. For me the most 'complete' batting record of the past two decades is Ponting. Bar his inexpliciable record in India (and only in India) he has been massive pretty much everywhere else and rarely looked troubled because of the quality of bowler he's faced.

sachin averaged 39 against wasim and waqar; and 38 against pollock and donald. he can live with that. no one else averages 35 + home and away against all opponents, with hundreds both home and away. and average 35+ even when you look at the stats against only the toughest bowlers, like in these cases.
/thread

Yes, but Ponting comes the closest to it and I'd much rather a player averaging 79 home and in the 20s away than averaging in the 30s both home and away against a team. For one player manages 47 overall against the team whilst the other in the 30s - and that two against 2 teams.

 

[akilana]

Ponting didn't face Pollock and Donald in their pomp in SA. Donald was an spent-force by 2002.

 

[Ikki]

Who cares if he faced them in SA? In the 90s Aus was just as pace-friendly as it was in SA.

Averaged 50 in 97-98 whilst both were at their peak in Aus with a bit over 1 year as a Test batsman. A great attack.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[kingpin]

Who cares if he faced them in SA? In the 90s Aus was just as pace-friendly as it was in SA.

Averaged 50 in 97-98 whilst both were at their peak in Aus with a bit over 1 year as a Test batsman. A great attack.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

plzz dont strt again

 

[akilana]

Expecting more stat-twisting.. bang and zimb removal.

 

[bagapath]

he also averages in the 30s with matches that include McGrath..

we have been through this before ikki. and we know, you admitted too, that mcgrath wasnt the sole reason for sachin's shortcomings in those games.

anyway, the point of this thread is who has a more complete record. sachin averages 40+ everywhere. ponting averages 26 in india. end of argument. dont know how you can prove ricky ponting has a more complete record than sachin. there are gaping holes in his resume even a blind man can see.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Ponting avg when w and w played = 0,
never played donald in sa,cashed in 2000s era when many bats cashed in.Tendu avg 46 against mcgrath in aus,scored 2 great 100s against donald in sa,avg much more than ricky against walsh and amby despite playing them in wi.Ricky failed against steyn in sa,tendu did well.Tendu also smashed lee in aus.

 

[Ikki]

we have been through this before ikki. and we know, you admitted too, that mcgrath wasnt the sole reason for sachin's shortcomings in those games.

anyway, the point of this thread is who has a more complete record. sachin averages 40+ everywhere. ponting averages 26 in india. end of argument. dont know how you can prove ricky ponting has a more complete record than sachin. there are gaping holes in his resume even a blind man can see.

Nah, disagree. Was poor against both S.Africa and Pak home and away really. Ponting only weirdly poor in India averages 79 against them in Aus.

 

[bagapath]

Nah, disagree. Was poor against both S.Africa and Pak home and away really. Ponting only weirdly poor in India averages 79 against them in Aus.

they are not comparable. sachin averages

40 in pakistan.
46 in south africa.
44 in india against pakistan.
38 against south africa in india.

all are significantly better than ponting's record in india which is a tailender-ish 26.

his numbers in SA are better than ponting's ashes record too.

his overall record against pak and SA, which stands at an avg of 42, is better than ponting's avg in england.

here is one modern cricketer with a complete batting resume. no other great except bradman, not sobers, richards or hutton, can boast of this kind of a complete resume. even in australia, ponting's backyard, sachin averages more than him.greg chappell is almost there. poor guy never had a chance to play in india and didnt score a hundred against nz at home. but sachin has done it all. the batting version of macko.

 

[smash84]

they are not comparable. sachin averages

40 in pakistan.
46 in south africa.
44 in india against pakistan.
38 against south africa in india.

all are significantly better than ponting's record in india which is a tailender-ish 26.

his numbers in SA are better than ponting's ashes record too.

his overall record against pak and SA, which stands at an avg of 42, is better than ponting's avg in england.

here is one modern cricketer with a complete batting resume. no other great except bradman, not sobers, richards or hutton, can boast of this kind of a complete resume. even in australia, ponting's backyard, sachin averages more than him.greg chappell is almost there. poor guy never had a chance to play in india and didnt score a hundred against nz at home. but sachin has done it all. the batting version of macko.

Sachin only averages 40 against Pakistan (obviously I am speaking by his standards). It really is a pity though that we couldn't see more of him against Wasim and Waqar.

I must say though that Ponting has really fallen away in the past 3 years while Sachin has risen from the ashes like a phoenix. It seems like a case of Imran and Botham. While Imran got better and better over the course of his career Botham just fell away towards the end.

That Ponting has been quite **** when the Aussie team is not as strong certainly brings him down a notch in my estimation. Sachin played like a star even when his team was **** (read as the 90s). Now that Australia have a comparable team Ponting's batting has gone to the dogs.

 

[Jono]

Not falling for the bait.... Not falling for the bait.....

Yep don't do it man. Not worth it.

 

[shankar]

Ponting only weirdly poor in India averages 79 against them in Aus.

Nothing weird about it. Indian bowlers, especially in the 90's and early 00's (before wickets stopped assisting spinners in India) were terrible overseas and excellent at home. Facing Indian spinners in India was one of the premier challenges of that era.

 

[ankitj]

Wasim and Waqar didn't have much success against Tendulkar. In the 99 series, it was Saqlain getting him out most of the time. If anything, Shoaib and Asif have have troubled Tendulkar more (may have something do with the fact that he faced them when his confidence and form was at an all time low). Even Pollock didn't trouble Tendulkar much (AFAIR). Donald was certainly the bowler who can boast to have done very well against Tendulkar.

 

[smash84]

Wasim and Waqar didn't have much success against Tendulkar. In the 99 series, it was Saqlain getting him out most of the time. If anything, Shoaib and Asif have have troubled Tendulkar more (may have something do with the fact that he faced them when his confidence and form was at an all time low). Even Pollock didn't trouble Tendulkar much (AFAIR). Donald was certainly the bowler who can boast to have done very well against Tendulkar.

True. Wasim and Waqar didn't play Tendy at their peak either. Between 89 and 99 there were no test matches between India and Pakistan. Asif troubled Tendy when Tendy was dire b/w 04-07 period. Shoaib did reasonably well against TEndy in 1999 series though. Didn't get clobbered by him.