*Official* - Pakistan in New Zealand 2010/2011

[Hurricane]

All this angst over one player.

I reckon the most likely thing to kill Williamson is the crazy amount of expectation people are putting on his shoulders. I wouldn't want it. Reckon expectation and hype didn't help Sinclair, McMillan or Vincent either.

EDIT:

The best thing we can do for the future is win a test ASAP. I'm not including Williamson in this argument, I'm making a general point here. Selecting teams for The Future (TM) often means you're in for some pain as these dudes find their feet.

The future theory is a red herring, because the best thing NZ can do is select their best side and try win some tests, rather than selecting some young guys who might be the best players in the future.

Regarding expectations and pressure - maybe that is one of the reasons why people want to ease him into the side at 6.

Regarding the future argument. So many ways to respond to that. Basically I think you are taking my point to an extreme. Earlier in this thread people were listing Williamson in their top 6 bats so I don't think it is a case of selecting a young guy who might be a best player in the future. He ticks all the boxes of build for the future and try to win in the present.

That said I reckon building for the future is important by developing some young talent (provided that young talent can justify its place in the team based on performances).
Succession planning etc...

 

[Athlai]

He has debuted, lets let him learn how to bat at 3 in home conditions against a weakened Pakistani attack.

 

[Prince EWS]

I wouldn't even move him to three yet, tbh - I just think the insane fear of doing so regardless of anything else is just a bit over-the-top.

What I do find funny is that while some people are paranoid beyond belief about ruining Williamson, no-one seems to remotely care about the terrible management of Guptill. Which of the following sounds like better management of a young player:

Scenario A:
Let a talented, hyped young batsman play domestic cricket for a few seasons and rack up big numbers in both forms. Give him a few ODIs, then bring him into the Test team after he's got his bearings. Bat him down the order at first until he's got some runs under his belt, then move him up the order to his natural position for his first home series.

Scenario B:
Pick a young opening batsman in both forms internationally who has dominated one day cricket but failed miserably in First Class cricket domestically. Bat him at three in one day cricket but open with him in Tests until he gets found out, then move him down the order. After he defies all odds and actually produces in his worst format out of position, drop him from both forms. Later, bring him back into the Test team at yet another new position despite the fact that he's been in terrible form on A tours and still averages 26 for his domestic First Class team.

 

[Hurricane]

He has debuted, lets let him learn how to bat at 3 in home conditions against a weakened Pakistani attack.

Is this all so that we can have Franklin in the team?
Also if the attack is so easy why didn't Williamson score runs in the warm up game...

And even if it were easy and he did bat at 3 and lit it up and succeeded would that truly prepare him to be a test match number 3 against the top countries in the world.

Anyways whatever I guess we will find out where he bats on Friday if selected at all.

 

[Athlai]

I would have Franklin in the team yes but I also think it is ridiculous to hide Williamson down the order. I'm not sure how you'd personally prepare Williamson to bat at number 3 but I have a feeling he'd be 30 odd and be wrapped in cotton wool.

 

[Mike5181]

I wouldn't even move him to three yet, tbh - I just think the insane fear of doing so regardless of anything else is just a bit over-the-top.

What I do find funny is that while some people are paranoid beyond belief about ruining Williamson, no-one seems to remotely care about the terrible management of Guptill. Which of the following sounds like better management of a young player:

Scenario A:
Let a talented, hyped young batsman play domestic cricket for a few seasons and rack up big numbers in both forms. Give him a few ODIs, then bring him into the Test team after he's got his bearings. Bat him down the order at first until he's got some runs under his belt, then move him up the order to his natural position for his first home series.

Scenario B:
Pick a young opening batsman in both forms internationally who has dominated one day cricket but failed miserably in First Class cricket domestically. Bat him at three in one day cricket but open with him in Tests until he gets found out, then move him down the order. After he defies all odds and actually produces in his worst format out of position, drop him from both forms. Later, bring him back into the Test team at yet another new position despite the fact that he's been in terrible form on A tours and still averages 26 for his domestic First Class team.

Like someone said before. A weakened Pakistan bowling attack at home is an ideal team to find feet at test level. After that we have Bangladesh in May apparently?(someone here said that). That is say five or so tests that can be used as say a substitute for the whole going back to domestic cricket and scoring mountain loads of runs to ultimately achieve absolutely nothing but apparently gain some confidence.

That confidence could be trumped easily by a couple of scores against the somewhat weaker teams on the international rankings we have coming up. Equally that domestic confidence they acquired can be diminished in a matter of deliveries because the level is such a step up that they have become somewhat sloppy.and as NZ fans should all know what works in domestic doesn't necessarily work in Internationals. To work out his technical deficiencies he is in the right place. Best coaches available in the country are around him. It's not like he has a bad technique anyway.

We have seen in the past with the likes of Sinclair, Franklin, Ingram etc that you can build up as much confidence as you want at domestic level but its no substitute for the real thing and while Guptill is there doing alright what is the point in replacing him. If he hits a century his average will probably come close to 40 then people will be saying he is a probable NZ ATG .

Franklin will find it hard to crack to side tbh. At least without any injuries occurring (Ryder,McCullum etc)

 

[Howsie]

New Zealand really should try and replicate how Northern Districts handled Kane Williamson during his first two domestic seasons imo. His first season he batted at five/six the entire season in both forms of the game, even though we were struggling up the order at times and Williamson was easily the best batsmen on the team. His second season he was moved up to three and even though he struggled early on his absolute dominance during the second part of the season is why we won both the one day and first class titles.

A little bit of patience never hurt anyone.

 

[Athlai]

Franklin actually seems to have found some kind of confidence at the highest level. It is a minor miracle that should be taken advantage of.

 

[Bahnz]

Reckon expectation and hype didn't help Sinclair, McMillan or Vincent either.

Just as an aside, I wouldn't put McMillan in the same camp as Sinclair and Vincent. McMillan experienced consistent success in test cricket until he fell away in his last 6 months of playing (and probably would've been brought back into the side if he hadn't retired at 31).

 

[slowfinger]

Omfg, what the **** does alam have to do more? Ffs...

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Franklin actually seems to have found some kind of confidence at the highest level. It is a minor miracle that should be taken advantage of.

Agree With The Athlai

 

[Faisal1985]

Yea Alam should be straight forward pick for test squad imo.

 

[NZTailender]

Yea Alam should be straight forward pick for test squad imo.

Yeah if not for anything else just so I can say 'great Fawad defensive shot'.

 

[Fusion]

yeah if not for anything else just so i can say 'great fawad defensive shot'.

i lol.

 

[straw man]

Interesting article on the pitch for the first test.

My prediction is that the pitch will be pretty bloody flat, so let's hope there's some swing around to make things interesting.

 

[_Ed_]

They've certainly been tending towards batsman-friendly pitches at Hamilton since the crater incident.

 

[straw man]

They've certainly been tending towards batsman-friendly pitches at Hamilton since the crater incident.

Yep, that's still the first thing that springs to mind whenever I think of the pitch at Hamilton.

Pity McKay doesn't get another chance to impress in this test series (I don't like him for ODIs) but on the positive side that means Arnel should get both games and I think he'll do well. Agree that it is not sensible to try to fit Franklin into this team, but will still be quietly chuffed if they announce him in the 11 tomorrow.

Edit: Unless it's as fourth bowler

 

[Athlai]

Bring back the crater, God it was gun.

Agree with Straw Man, personally I'd have Franklin in the team but I'm hardly going to bat an eyelid if he doesn't get played. The logic behind not playing him and keeping the current lineup is perfectly understandable. Jimmy is just a gun though and I lurv him.

 

[Bahnz]

Bring back the crater, God it was gun.

AWTA. I remember Vettori landing a couple in there that headed off in the opposite direction to his usual off breaks. From that someone in the dominion jumped to the hilariously ott conclusion that Vettori had developed a doosra.

 

[Zinzan]

Bring back the crater, God it was gun.

AWTA. I remember Vettori landing a couple in there that headed off in the opposite direction to his usual off breaks.

All I remember about that is Vettori didn't hit it nearly as often as I was hoping. Ironically it wasn't even a factor in the end IIRC due to the fact it was slightly too wide. It was a freakish sight though.