*Official* Third Test at the WACA

[vicleggie]

Johnson's played far more games...

Swann has a superior average, despite being a spinner.

jonno hasnt played against the bangla boys, sonny.
hed bread theire calcium deficient bones if he had the chance.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, there's no doubt it happens in isolated spells, innings or even series, but when it happens for years I do think it's time to say "well maybe he hasn't been lucky; maybe I just don't fully understand how he gets his wickets."

Johnson almost always looks gash, IMO, but he almost always takes key top order wickets as well. If it'd happened over a small sample size I'd be calling him rubbish (as I did early in his career, tbh) but it's been happening for so long that it can't just be luck.

Andrew Symonds says hi, ****

 

[Spark]

Would be a fair comparison if Johnson got a ton of wickets off inside-edged LBWs, and given caught off the elbow.

 

[Ruckus]

Before Brisbane I heard him saying he had 'no idea' how he sometimes swung the ball, which I thought was a bit bizarre. If true, that is.

Yeah, apparently he didn't know how he did it in the first innings either

Johnson swinging the ball in the South Africa did more long-term damage to his career than good IMO. People (including him for a time) became obsessed with it despite the fact it's not something he can consistently do. I'm actually not quite as excited by him doing it here as most because I doubt it's something he can sustain. What he can sustain is those fast, awkward cutters he bowls - something people forget about it, instead assuming that he's completely ineffective when he's not swinging it. Johnson of the home series against South Africa is a much more realistic goal than the Johnson who swung the ball in South Africa and in this game.

There are clearly two mindsets Johnson has had through the years though. One is the Johnson who wants to go out and try and swing the ball (which I believe is the one we saw in this match) and the other is the one who wants to just try and 'hit the deck hard' and get in the face of the bowlers without trying to swing it. The latter is how he has tried to perform for most of his recent career, and while he definately still gets wickets, by performing that way he is probably 'only' a 30 average bowler. That is good, but it seems like he isn't fulfilling his potential. Surely he can sit down with Troy Cooley and really try and hone in on how he is swinging the ball. Afterall, it's not like it's a foreign ability - he obviously can swing the ball, it's just a matter of trying to work out how is he doing it. Once he knows that then surely he can just practice and practice until he can do it more consistently.

 

[vicleggie]

Just miss out the game that he won. Nice.

he took 5 wickets (3 of them tailenders) on a 5th day pitch in adelaide like any spinner should. after eng was in an unloseable position.

beautiful, quality bowling. but was it as dominant as johnsons on day 2? no

like i said, he can close up matches for you. but he cant turn a game on its head, from nowhere, like steyn and johnson

 

[andyc]

if ponting is out who will bat 3 you think huss? Khawaja at 5? I hope he plays could leave a shaky lower order...

Clarke and Khawaja at 3 and 4, tbh. Preferably Usman and then Michael, but the selectors would probably go the other way around. With Hussey playing amazingly at 5 they're not going to move him to 3.

 

[Spark]

Clarke at 3 is infinitely hazardous but something tells me it'll be happen. He played at 3 last year when Ponting couldn't bat didn't he?

 

[Spark]

Yeah, apparently he didn't know how he did it in the first innings either




There are clearly two mindsets Johnson has had through the years though. One is the Johnson who wants to go out and try and swing the ball (which I believe is the one we saw in this match) and the other is the one who wants to just try and 'hit the deck hard' and get in the face of the bowlers without trying to swing it. The latter is how he has tried to perform for most of his recent career, and while he definately still gets wickets, by performing that way he is probably 'only' a 30 average bowler. That is good, but it seems like he isn't fulfilling his potential. Surely he can sit down with Troy Cooley and really try and hone in on how he is swinging the ball. Afterall, it's not like it's a foreign ability - he obviously can swing the ball, it's just a matter of trying to work out how is he doing it. Once he knows that then surely he can just practice and practice until he can do it more consistently.

Johnson said himself he wasn't trying to swing it tbf. It just happens. The fact that he doesn't know when it's swinging makes it even more dangerous.

 

[G Rot]

Johnson's played far more games...

Swann has a superior average, despite being a spinner.

simon katich almost has a better average than johnson despite being a spinner... The wicket tally is where it counts in saying that swann has quite a few and a gamewinner he definately is... just not as potentially devastating as steyn or johnson.

 

[vicleggie]

johnsons sole focus should be accuracy and good areas- from there, the rest will come.

he didnt particularly swing it much today, yet he created beautiful pressure, hurried them up, and got those nicks.


whereas the great swing king hilfenhaus, bends it more than a kangaroos ****, gets amazing returns of 1/400 after 1000 deliveries.


its good that johnson said "i dont know if i was trying to swing it"- he was focussing on his most important bit- his accuracy/consistency, rythm and areas. thats his focal point.

as someone else said just before- the fact that he swung it in safrica, and then focussed too much on swing, and thought he was a swing bowler, wasnt good.

all the great FAST bowlers have more than just swing to rely on.

 

[Prince EWS]

Andrew Symonds says hi, ****

Symonds's period of being an effective Test player was very small. He scored an insane amount of runs over a period of about a year when he was given regular reprieves by poor umpiring, which incidentally is a lot different to saying someone just looks too **** to have the success they're having. The batting equivalent to Johnson would be someone like Cook, IMO, who looks technically flawed a lot of the time but manages to score runs anyway and can produce really big, important performances. Cook, like Johnson, is put under undo scrutiny when he's out of form due to the way he looks and the way he gets out.

People are naturally more likely to be worried about a player's failings if they think the reasons are obvious. When Pietersen or Hilfenhaus are out of form everyone says they'll be sweet but when it's someone like Cook or Johnson - players who have made careers out of proving technique junkies and reality-deniers wrong - the knives come out.

 

[Jarquis]

Johnson said himself he wasn't trying to swing it tbf. It just happens. The fact that he doesn't know when it's swinging makes it even more dangerous.

I actually quite like the idea that Johnson tries to fling one down just outside off to find the edge of KP's bat in the first innings, only to see it tail back in massively and get him LBW despite it not even being remotely what he was attempting.

 

[vicleggie]

if rick out

hughes
watson
khwawaja
hussey
clarke
smith
haddin


surely even hildich/neilsen and co arent dumb enough to briing clarke up when hes batting in such a pathetic vein

and finally usman gets a game!

 

[andyc]

While I think that, at the moment at least, having Usman in the team instead of Ricky would be advantageous in terms of runs scored, I definitely think that Ponting's leadership would be missed, even though he would undoubtedly be hanging around in the dressing rooms. Say what you will about his field settings etc, but Ricky does have the team behind him and while he's definitely not the world's best captain, I fear that Clarke doesn't have what it takes yet to keep up the positive attitudes we've seen from Australia in this Test and convert it into a second win.

 

[Ruckus]

Johnson said himself he wasn't trying to swing it tbf. It just happens. The fact that he doesn't know when it's swinging makes it even more dangerous.

Ahh yeah, right you are. I think that's just more the reason for him to work out how he is doing it though. How can he get more consistent at something and practice if he doesn't even how he is doing it in the first place?

It is definately dangerous that the swing is erratic, but if he knew how to do it at will, then he could control that to his advantage.

 

[Spark]

I actually quite like the idea that Johnson tries to fling one down just outside off to find the edge of KP's bat in the first innings, only to see it tail back in massively and get him LBW despite it not even being remotely what he was attempting.

As I said that makes it more dangerous. If the bowler doesn't know it'll swing, how the hell does the batsman know? I think that he gets a little off the pitch too when he swings it which makes the swing seem later and more vicious. Certainly seemed so to the one that got Collingwood - to get that sort of movement purely through the air is truly frightening.

 

[G Rot]

Clarke and Khawaja at 3 and 4, tbh. Preferably Usman and then Michael, but the selectors would probably go the other way around. With Hussey playing amazingly at 5 they're not going to move him to 3.

God i hope not clarke is all at sea at the moment usman i could handle at 3 but a little unsure on clarke...

 

[Prince EWS]

I have a sinking feeling Marsh will be brought straight in to bat three.

 

[Spark]

While I think that, at the moment at least, having Usman in the team instead of Ricky would be advantageous in terms of runs scored, I definitely think that Ponting's leadership would be missed, even though he would undoubtedly be hanging around in the dressing rooms. Say what you will about his field settings etc, but Ricky does have the team behind him and while he's definitely not the world's best captain, I fear that Clarke doesn't have what it takes yet to keep up the positive attitudes we've seen from Australia in this Test and convert it into a second win.

I reckon - or at least I hope - that Clarke will play the role Kallis did in the third test in the away SA series. There Kallis made it clear that he was acting as Smith's proxy on the field, Clarke needs to do the same if it comes to that. He does not hold the influence or force of will - especially when his form is so shifty - to command this team through his own merits.

 

[vicleggie]

While I think that, at the moment at least, having Usman in the team instead of Ricky would be advantageous in terms of runs scored, I definitely think that Ponting's leadership would be missed, even though he would undoubtedly be hanging around in the dressing rooms. Say what you will about his field settings etc, but Ricky does have the team behind him and while he's definitely not the world's best captain, I fear that Clarke doesn't have what it takes yet to keep up the positive attitudes we've seen from Australia in this Test and convert it into a second win.

ahhh ****, i only just realized that if punter misses the series, clarke will be captain.

should we just give you guys the ashes?

edit- sorry andy thought u were a pom
"Should we just give england the ashes?"