*Official* New Zealand in India 2010

[Mike5181]

You can learn to handle it better in a domestic game than in team practice.

By your reasoning we should disband domestic cricket and just have nationwide net practice. Domestic cricket doesn't teach anything so why bother?

Or rotate the players through the national team, well out of their depth, on the off chance you might strike gold.

Oh wait, that sounds familliar....

Yeah your favourite player Matthew Sinclair is a prime example that the pressure at the international stage can not be learned at the domestic scene no matter how many games you play.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah thats the right way to do it. Waste years and years of this guys career on the domestic stage which has been proven time and time again to be well below what is required on the international level.

Watling averages 30 with the bat (you think batting for a keeper is very important) at that domestic stage well below what is required for test cricket, and hasn't kept at that level in yonks.

Just putting it out there.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah your favourite player Matthew Sinclair is a prime example that the pressure at the international stage can not be learned at the domestic scene no matter how many games you play.

You're very good at avoiding the argument aren't you?

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Mike5181]

Watling averages 30 with the bat (you think batting for a keeper is very important) at that domestic stage well below what is required for test cricket, and hasn't kept at that level in yonks.

Just putting it out there.

What is required at the domestic scene is different than what is required on the international stage. Guptill averages jack all but we all know he is a good player.

 

[Mike5181]

You're very good at avoiding the argument aren't you?

Welcome to my ignore list.

What argument? name one point per post instead of doing a 20 point page long post.

 

[Athlai]

If he's been working for it then he should be allowed to go back to domestic stuff and show his worth game after game after game after game.

Doing anything else is basically saying to the other keepers "we don't rate you at all, we rate you so low we'll take a guy who hasn't kept for several FC matches in a row for years over you, give up all your test ambitions now because despite working for years and earning a shot we don't want you."

Great message to send back to domestic cricket, a competition already struggling for credibility in the eyes of the public.

Keeping isn't analogous to batting or bowling IMO. If he is confident keeping to his teammates than I'd trust him with the gloves. He has already shown himself to be an ecstatic fielder at international level.

Nor do any of us put any weight on how well these guys keep anyway. We aren't complaining that Hopkins has proven unremarkable with the gloves, we care about the runs he scores with the bat. If a keeper catches anything that comes his way 9 times out of 10 then they're good enough to keep at international level these days. Runs have become more important than the gloves.

 

[Mike5181]

Keeping isn't analogous to batting or bowling IMO. If he is confident keeping to his teammates than I'd trust him with the gloves. He has already shown himself to be an ecstatic fielder at international level.

He doesn't get it lol give up. Its not like he would be keeping to Shaun Tait, Brett Lee etc anyway. The NZ team is basically filled with medium pacers and a spinner who doesn't even turn the ball.

 

[Flem274*]

Keeping isn't analogous to batting or bowling IMO. If he is confident keeping to his teammates than I'd trust him with the gloves. He has already shown himself to be an ecstatic fielder at international level.

Keeping in practice, doing anything in practice, is way different to doing it in the game though. I hope I'm not sounding patronising because you know your stuff but the intensity level would be waaaaaaay more than practice.

I want him to do it domestically first (if he's even interested), because it creates the real game situation and doesn't slap the domestic keepers in the face.

 

[Athlai]

Keeping in practice, doing anything in practice, is way different to doing it in the game though. I hope I'm not sounding patronising because you know your stuff but the intensity level would be waaaaaaay more than practice.

I want him to do it domestically first (if he's even interested), because it creates the real game situation and doesn't slap the domestic keepers in the face.

Club level keeping is far more akin to keeping at Tests than batting or bowling at club level IMO.

I added a bit more to what I was saying as well in my previous post.

 

[Mike5181]

Keeping isn't analogous to batting or bowling IMO. If he is confident keeping to his teammates than I'd trust him with the gloves. He has already shown himself to be an ecstatic fielder at international level.

Nor do any of us put any weight on how well these guys keep anyway. We aren't complaining that Hopkins has proven unremarkable with the gloves, we care about the runs he scores with the bat. If a keeper catches anything that comes his way 9 times out of 10 then they're good enough to keep at international level these days. Runs have become more important than the gloves.

Yeah Amen to that. As long as he isn't a Kamran Akmal.

 

[Athlai]

We shouldn't beat around the bush IMO, Watling has got into the blackcaps setup for better or worse and now that he is there he doesn't have to go back to stage 1 if he shows signs of class in a different area and impresses the right people.

And to be honest I don't think he should. Though I wouldn't feel this way if I felt there was anyone that was really being robbed by him getting a shortcut, besides Young and arguably van Wyk there is no one who should be ahead of him.

 

[Mike5181]

We shouldn't beat around the bush IMO, Watling has got into the blackcaps setup for better or worse and now that he is there he doesn't have to go back to stage 1 if he shows signs of class in a different area and impresses the right people.

And to be honest I don't think he should. Though I wouldn't feel this way if I felt there was anyone that was really being robbed by him getting a shortcut, besides Young and arguably van Wyk there is no one who should be ahead of him.

We have nothing to lose anyway. We are basically at rock bottom and Watling is only 25 so a long-term solution is on the cards here not just a couple of years.

 

[Athlai]

I still wouldn't have him in my XI come the Pak tour but wouldn't kick up any fuss if he was in there.

 

[Flem274*]

Club level keeping is far more akin to keeping at Tests than batting or bowling at club level IMO.

I added a bit more to what I was saying as well in my previous post.

Nah Weston can keep really well at club level, but I wouldn't want him doing it in tests, so I can't agree there.

Nor do any of us put any weight on how well these guys keep anyway. We aren't complaining that Hopkins has proven unremarkable with the gloves, we care about the runs he scores with the bat. If a keeper catches anything that comes his way 9 times out of 10 then they're good enough to keep at international level these days. Runs have become more important than the gloves.

An awesome keeper who can hold onto the tough/half chances would be way better than a merely good one who can bat imo. World class keepers are matchwinners in their own right. I haven't seen enough of our keepers to say who is awesome or even merely good, and I'm not going to judge it off one or two 20/20 games, but I'd pick the best keeper, especially since they will bat at eight and the guys getting talked up the most (Young and van Wyk) can both hold a bat anyway. In fact they've scored more runs than Watling.

 

[Mike5181]

I still wouldn't have him in my XI come the Pak tour but wouldn't kick up any fuss if he was in there.

Well you'd say Hopkins might be more at home on the New Zealand wickets so maybe one more series and if he miserably fails then a reassessment might be needed.

 

[Athlai]

New Zealand don't have a keeper as good as Brendon McCullum was, who I would argue wasn't a good enough keeper to win a match in his own right.

 

[Athlai]

Well you'd say Hopkins might be more at home on the New Zealand wickets so maybe one more series and if he miserably fails then a reassessment might be needed.

Yep Hopkins deserves to play at home IMO, at least the one match.

 

[Mike5181]

New Zealand don't have a keeper as good as Brendon McCullum was, who I would argue wasn't a good enough keeper to win a match in his own right.

Yeah and he was selected because he showed potential in both wicketkeeping and with the bat which we are reaping the benefits from now.

 

[Flem274*]

New Zealand don't have a keeper as good as Brendon McCullum was, who I would argue wasn't a good enough keeper to win a match in his own right.

DWTA. He was quite capable of holding on to rippers.

And I'd still take the keeper most likely to hold the catches.

 

[Mike5181]

DWTA. He was quite capable of holding on to rippers.

And I'd still take the keeper most likely to hold the catches.

He was a natural athlete much like Watling.