*Official* Tour Matches

[Jarquis]

The point I was making was about facing quality batting line ups, not where they bowled. Your point though further illustrates why it is premature at this stage to classify Swann beyond anything than 'good' or 'promising' - he hasn't even the opportunity to play in places like Australia yet.

Well I think it's fair to call him one of the best bowlers in the world right now. You can feel free to disagree, but saying "he's just not that good" is ********.
Say what you want about declining bowling standards but I don't think you can name 5 better Test bowlers than Swann right now.

I know you'll point out gaps in his record or whatever, his debut series in India wasn't great... but he was still the best spinner on show from either side. He may have "only taken wickets against Pakistan" but that's the same Pakistan side Johnson couldn't buy a wicket against, on the same pitches.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well I think it's fair to call him one of the best bowlers in the world right now. You can feel free to disagree, but saying "he's just not that good" is ********.
Say what you want about declining bowling standards but I don't think you can name 5 better Test bowlers than Swann right now.

I know you'll point out gaps in his record or whatever, his debut series in India wasn't great... but he was still the best spinner on show from either side. He may have "only taken wickets against Pakistan" but that's the same Pakistan side Johnson couldn't buy a wicket against, on the same pitches.

To be fair though, if bowling better than Johnson in England was the benchmark for being one of the best bowlers in the world we'd have about 5,000 bowlers in that category.

 

[Jarquis]

To be fair though, if bowling better than Johnson in England was the benchmark for being one of the best bowlers in the world we'd have about 5,000 bowlers in that category.

So we just excuse Johnson for being ****house in England do we? OK, then I'd like to make Swann's record in Australia exempt from his record.
I mean if being better than an orthodox finger spinner in Australia is the benchmark for being one of the best bowlers in the world we have about 50000 of them.

 

[pup11]

Quite a few judgements being made on here on the basis of two days in a warm-up game!

It's all about getting used to the conditions, obviously it's not ideal for a batsman to stay in the middle for only half a dozen deliveries, but for the likes of Trott, KP, and Bell today will have helped them in getting accustomed to things. Do not read too much into the situation of this game, it's all about game-time.

Assumptions were already made, even before a ball on this tour was bowled, the two days of this tour game, only proving those assumptions to be true so far.....

 

[Prince EWS]

So we just excuse Johnson for being ****house in England do we? OK, then I'd like to make Swann's record in Australia exempt from his record.
I mean if being better than an orthodox finger spinner in Australia is the benchmark for being one of the best bowlers in the world we have about 50000 of them.

"How good is Swann?" is a completely different argument from "Is Swann better than Johnson?" though.

Saying Swann is good because Johnson bowled **** in England doesn't really work.

For the record I think Swann is comfortably one of the best bowlers in the world but there are a few holes in your logic sometimes.

 

[Woodster]

Assumptions were already made, even before a ball on this tour was bowled, the two days of this tour game, only proving those assumptions to be true so far.....

These tour games will prove very little when it comes down to the serious business.

 

[Spark]

Obviously not but 110-odd and 8 down in very good batting conditions against a bowling attack barely above club standard at best is not a good look.

 

[pup11]

Quite amazing to see how most English fans expect, Swann to do most of the damage in Oz.
Its the same place where even the greatest offie of all time (Murali), has struggled for his wickets, despite having all those variations up his sleeve.

 

[Woodster]

Obviously not but 110-odd and 8 down in very good batting conditions against a bowling attack barely above club standard at best is not a good look.

Obviously it's not ideal, but a few of the batsmen have spent time in the middle. We'll be better prepared after this game, even if we get beat, which is unlikely.

 

[Jarquis]

"How good is Swann?" is a completely different argument from "Is Swann better than Johnson?" though.

Saying Swann is good because Johnson bowled **** in England doesn't really work.

For the record I think Swann is comfortably one of the best bowlers in the world but there are a few holes in your logic sometimes.

Not when people have said that Johnson's one of the best bowlers in the world... it works perfectly.

It's not like I'm saying "Swann's great, he has a better record than Jeetan Patel" - to which everyone could say "Patel's rank, so I don't give a ****".

People accepth that "Johnson = good" whilst saying "Swann = not so good".

 

[pup11]

These tour games will prove very little when it comes down to the serious business.

I was under the assumption that Straussy & Co. were talking these games very seriously, and infact looking to win them.

 

[Woodster]

Quite amazing to see how most English fans expect, Swann to do most of the damage in Oz.
Its the same place where even the greatest offie of all time (Murali), has struggled for his wickets, despite having all those variations up his sleeve.

From what I can gather, don't think that's the case at all. Most expect him to do a very capable job but we're not talking taking 30 wickets at less than 25. He may be needed to perform a containing job at times while we attack from the other end.

To be fair Hauritz has had success at home, so it is far from impossible, and all this, Murali didn't do well there, so no-one can is pretty unfounded. Murali was bowling at an exceptionally strong batting line-up back then, Swann will have a weaker unit to go at.

 

[Woodster]

I was under the assumption that Straussy & Co. were talking these games very seriously, and infact looking to win them.

Of course they'll try to win them, and they will take it seriously, in terms of doing what we can to enhance our preparation for the first Test. It's like a pre-season friendly in football, it's getting 90 minutes of football under your belt, a tough workout, a chance to work on things in real game situations, the result is not the major factor, but of course it's nicer if you win.

 

[andyc]

Quite amazing to see how most English fans expect, Swann to do most of the damage in Oz.

Don't think many are expecting him to most of the damage, just to contribute in the 4th innings of a couple of games, which I think he will do fairly well. I think today's game may well be a good preview as to how Broad's going to go here, will top the wickets for England easily IMO.

 

[Jarquis]

Quite amazing to see how most English fans expect, Swann to do most of the damage in Oz.
Its the same place where even the greatest offie of all time (Murali), has struggled for his wickets, despite having all those variations up his sleeve.

Where's that been said?

 

[pup11]

Not when people have said that Johnson's one of the best bowlers in the world... it works perfectly.

It's not like I'm saying "Swann's great, he has a better record than Jeetan Patel" - to which everyone could say "Patel's rank, so I don't give a ****".

People accepth that "Johnson = good" whilst saying "Swann = not so good".

Johnson has been bowling **** for the last 18 months, but still he somehow manages to pick wickets. I don't think there is any bowler in the world, who takes as many wicket as he does, despite bowling so consistently bad.

Despite everyone saying how bad Johnson was during the Ashes in England, they forget that he still managed to pick 20 wkts @ 30 something, which is exceptional, considering how shocking he was on that tour.
Swann is good in England, whereas Johnson is not, but in Australia, it could easily be the other way around.
Therefore there is no point in comparing, Johnson' record in England to Swann's.

 

[Jarquis]

Johnson has been bowling **** for the last 18 months, but still he somehow manages to pick wickets. I don't think there is any bowler in the world, who takes as many wicket as he does, despite bowling so consistently bad.

Despite everyone saying how bad Johnson was during the Ashes in England, they forget that he still managed to pick 20 wkts @ 30 something, which is exceptional, considering how shocking he was on that tour.
Swann is good in England, whereas Johnson is not, but in Australia, it could easily be the other way around.
Therefore there is no point in comparing, Johnson' record in England to Swann's.

I've already said I'm not expecting Swann to tear up in Australia, I expect him to have a similar series to the one he had in the 2009 Ashes.
But when people say Johnson's a good bowler but Swann isn't. I'll point out the inconsistencies in that argument, that Swann blitzed Pakistan in England whilst Johnson had an absolute 'mare against them.
Johnson is far better suited to Australian conditions than Swann, you're right. But that doesn't make Swann a worse bowler.

 

[Jono]

It was spot fixing,then again you knew it was and are merely fishing.

Yet you posted anyway

 

[TumTum]

Obviously it's not ideal, but a few of the batsmen have spent time in the middle. We'll be better prepared after this game, even if we get beat, which is unlikely.

I don't think that's how it works. It is not as if Australian conditions are completely foreign and takes some time to get used too. This match shows that English batsmen really do struggle here and no matter how many tour matches they play, they will still struggle come the Ashes.

 

[Jono]

Quite a few judgements being made on here on the basis of two days in a warm-up game!

It's all about getting used to the conditions, obviously it's not ideal for a batsman to stay in the middle for only half a dozen deliveries, but for the likes of Trott, KP, and Bell today will have helped them in getting accustomed to things. Do not read too much into the situation of this game, it's all about game-time.

Yeah I still think Australia will comfortably win the series, but I have put very little into this tour match at all.

It's quite interesting to see how CW has reacted to it actually.