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*Official* Australia in India 2010

robelinda

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Matt79 said:
Kinda of forgetting the near decade in the wilderness both Martyn and Hayden spent in the wilderness after the selectors "took a punt" and they came a cropper.
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Not to mention Steve Waugh failing for 4 years before coming good for one year then being dropped for 18 months. Different situations now though of course. Slater had 2 average tests and was dropped in 96, Ponting had one bad test and was dropped in 96.
 
TT Boy

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
aussie said:
Australia quite easily. Especially when you consider AUS pace depth ATM.

As already mentioned Ntini got dropped because he was finised as test bowler. SA 3rd choice paceman is Parnell ATM, but De Wet when fit.

So overall if you add up first XI options plus pace depth of both sides:

AUS: Bolinger, Hilfenhaus, Johnson, Harris, Siddle, George. All 5 have played tests & except for George ATM, all are quality. Shout outs to other talented youngsters who have been bowling well in sheild cricket, but i have not seen yet expec for J Pattinson such as Starc, Copeland

SA: Steyn, Morkel, De Wet, Parnell, C Alexander, McLaren, Tsotsobe, E O'reilly (Francois Plaatjies & Quinton Friend are also a few names that have been spoken about).

Off this crop of who have played international cricket outside Steyn/Morkel, only De Wet is quality ATM. McLaren is decent but is basically suited to bowling in SA conditions, while i have been impressed with Alexander. But the rest are either unproven unknowns or crap (Tsotsobe).
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Why do you keep mentioning this guy? He doesn't even play professional four day cricket.

As for the question, Steyn is comfortably the world’s best fast bowler and Morne Morkel top 5, so I would take just those two over Johnson, House and hairpiece Bollinger. Interesting to see how Ryan Harris comebacks because when he debuted for Aus he wasn’t the 145kph+ bowler he was earlier this year, in fact he was pretty meh.
 
vcs

vcs

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So Sehwag will fail to break the record for maximum number of half-centuries in consecutive Test matches. Tendulkar is on 10 BTW, and Tamim is on 7. The record is 11, shared by Viv and Gambhir.
 
Ruckus

Ruckus

International Captain
andyc said:
Apologies, just seemed odd to me that 19 Tests isn't enough to judge whether a player is good enough. Difference in opinions, I suppose. Your examples of Ponting and Hussey aren't the same as the North situation though; Ponting and Hussey were still clearly good enough to be in the team after 19 Tests. Yeah, Ponting's average of 45 wasn't as good as it is now, but it's still pretty bloody good. An average of 37 isn't. Having a number 6 who gets out for under 20 every 4/5 innings is a liability. There's younger batsmen out there (Khwaja, Hughes, Smith) who are pressing for a place in the team that show a lot more promise than North does.
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I think a slight distinction has to be made...I don't think 19 tests is enough to determine a players average (I was just using the examples of Hussey and Ponting to illustrate that point). 19 tests is enough, however, to observe whether a player has potential. And this is probably really where we differ in our opinions. I think North has clearly shown he has class as a batsman (i.e. when he gets going he plays like someone who should average over 40). Whether he can ramp up his consistancy and average, we can only speculate. But I think the best gauge of whether he will be able to, is from his FC average of 43 or so. To get an average around that mark will only require one more century from North in his next test. Prior to his most recent century he was averaging 35, and afterwards 38 (which actually highlights the flaws of using only 19 test matches to determine an average; because it can vary so much in so little time)

I don't think having a century-or-nothing no.6 is a liability IF, and only if, the order above him can sort out their problems. Ponting seems to be on track now. The main problem is Hussey, who needs to be replaced. Unlike North's average, which is still fluctuating a lot, Hussey's average has been following a smooth downward trend for years now, which isn't a good sign. I agree that the young batsmen you mentioned should have a part in the team, but if it was me I would replace Hussey with Khawaja, and keep North for now. Hughes doesn't fit the role of no. 6, I think he will play an openeing role with Watson when Katich retires. I would also replace Hauritz with Smith, however that is obviously not a popular choice for most people.
 
howardj

howardj

International Coach
Matt79 said:
Kinda of forgetting the near decade in the wilderness both Martyn and Hayden spent in the wilderness after the selectors "took a punt" and they came a cropper.
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Point being that it was part of their development.

Putting players in early allows them to work on their game if they get dropped. It fast tracks their development.

Where do 30 year old debutants do if they get dropped after a rough start?

They never come back if you get dropped at 32 etc.
 
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Matt79

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
howardj said:
Point being that it was part of their development.

Putting players in early allows them to work on their game if they get dropped. It fast tracks their development.

Where do 30 year old debutants do if they get dropped after a rough start?

They never come back if you get dropped at 32 etc.
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Early debuts - like Hughes? Like Smith in the limited overs stuff? Facts and rhetoric not matching up here.
 
robelinda

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
howardj said:
Point being that it was part of their development.

Putting players in early allows them to work on their game if they get dropped. It fast tracks their development.

Where do 30 year old debutants do if they get dropped after a rough start?

They never come back if you get dropped at 32 etc.
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Very true, that was an issue people were talking about in 05 when Hussey debuted, same for Hodge. At the time they were the two best performers in state cricket and had to be given a go at some point, now though we have at least 3 guys who are demolishing the selectors door demanding selection.
 
social

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
vic_orthdox said:
Simply put:

Smith should not be played as a specialist bowler. The biggest problem, for Australia, was not that Hauritz was impotent, but that he leaked runs. Smith's not going to bring about a consistency and accuracy that the attack currently requires. If Smith is to play, he'd have to bat at 6 or 7 (behind Haddin).

Khawaja is the obvious candidate for no. 6, and is ahead of Smith at this time for that position.

Australia will not tamper with the opening slots at the moment, I don't think that they are prepared to when it's probably the one feature of the batting that has been reasonably consistent over the past 12 months. Even though Katich didn't kick on at all this series, Australia still got off to relatively consistent starts over the four innings.

In the end, I think that Australia will persevere with the current line-up until at least the 3rd Test of the Ashes. They've put the eggs into this basket already, and invested in these current players, and given the players (outside of Khawaja) the exposure required if there are any injuries during the series. After the Ashes, we'll see changes.
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Totally agree that this will be approach taken but your investment analogy shows why it is a flawed strategy

Gamblers "average down" in the face of a falling market in the hope that a pay off will recoup their losses

Rational investors assess their position against prevailing market conditions and cut their losses if the risks outweigh the rewards

In terms of the Australian cricket team, the prevailing conditions are that we have a horribly inconsistent batting order that has been largely responsible for seeing us slip to 5th in the world rankings and lose a number of series

The risk is that the conditions OF THE PAST 2 YEARS continue and the Ashes are lost before changes are made

IMO, a rational investor would make changes now
 
Black_Warrior

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Shane Warne and his big mouth creates trouble again LOL
Seriously..will this guy ever learn?? Its amazing how intelligent he was on the field and how dumb he comes across off it
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
social said:
Totally agree that this will be approach taken but your investment analogy shows why it is a flawed strategy

Gamblers "average down" in the face of a falling market in the hope that a pay off will recoup their losses

Rational investors assess their position against prevailing market conditions and cut their losses if the risks outweigh the rewards

In terms of the Australian cricket team, the prevailing conditions are that we have a horribly inconsistent batting order that has been largely responsible for seeing us slip to 5th in the world rankings and lose a number of series

The risk is that the conditions OF THE PAST 2 YEARS continue and the Ashes are lost before changes are made

IMO, a rational investor would make changes now
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Amen..
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
TT Boy said:
Why do you keep mentioning this guy? He doesn't even play professional four day cricket.

As for the question, Steyn is comfortably the world’s best fast bowler and Morne Morkel top 5, so I would take just those two over Johnson, House and hairpiece Bollinger. Interesting to see how Ryan Harris comebacks because when he debuted for Aus he wasn’t the 145kph+ bowler he was earlier this year, in fact he was pretty meh.
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I was just a name out their of options the SA have that i have seen or heard about, since he obviously is a talent. Whether he ends up playing professional 4D cricket or for SA on is a different matter.

Morkel is not better than Johnson regardless of ranking. They are practically both the same.

AUS wins out because if all are fit & playing @ their best they are better in the 1st XI slightly & potentially have the better depth.
 
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