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***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

Top_Cat

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He was my favourite as well. Loved that bowling action. I think his last 2 series against Aus. when he was utterly pedestrian really hurt him.
Yes and no. From an Aussie perspective, in all series' he played against them, Donald was considered a bit of a sook. Bowled only a couple of really top spells in Australia where he really fired up, otherwise the perception was that if you weren't intimidated by his pace/swing/attitude and got through his opening spell, he'd lose his **** a bit too easily trying to blast you out and get pumped, even in SA.
 

shankar

International Debutant
Ok, I'm guessing you didnt even watch that MCG match? Donald bowled the best he ever did in Australia in that match, and in the next test which was SRW's 100th. at tea on day 1 Aus had only just crawled to 100/4, Donald and Pollock were almost unplayable. After tea Punter decided to attack and it was absolutely magnificent. Donald gave him everything, then he took the new ball and Ponting went even harder at him, It was glorious stuff. A supreme hundred. Ponting showed all how it was done.
Where did I say anything about that innings? :wacko:
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah and my point was that that means nothing since they only faced off in 3 innings. It was barely a contest.


He was my favourite as well. Loved that bowling action. I think his last 2 series against Aus. when he was utterly pedestrian really hurt him.
I wouldn't call it a no contest since Ponting junior scored a ton in his first ever innings against him. Just had to see the series. Ponting scored 137 runs in his first test against Donald and 62 in the second test and didn't need to bat again. He wasn't troubled; Australia wasn't troubled really. Ironically, the thing I remember about that series is Kallis and Cronje saving their asses. And I am terrible at remembering stuff yet that one sticks out.

Even in the last 5 balls stat you brought up Ponting scored 11 runs off Donald. You take all the great pace bowlers in the 90s (Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock and Walsh (he didn't play Ambrose) he averages 56 in some 27 test matches. That many matches across those bowlers; it's not really coincidental IMO. And this was at a time he was still developing and finding his place in the team.
 
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shankar

International Debutant
Yes and no. From an Aussie perspective, in all series' he played against them, Donald was considered a bit of a sook. Bowled only a couple of really top spells in Australia where he really fired up, otherwise the perception was that if you weren't intimidated by his pace/swing/attitude and got through his opening spell, he'd lose his **** a bit too easily trying to blast you out and get pumped, even in SA.
Ahh, interesting. Now that you mention it, I can't remember too many times when he tried to frustrate batsmen into getting out. But that might be because my impression of him was largely based on matches against India when he hardly needed to!
 
Some blatant lies being passed off as fact.Ponting has NOT done better vs great bowling pairs.

Against W and W,Ponting only played 1 test and scored two ducks! Tendu only played one full series as a 16 yr old in pak,averaging mid 30s.he faced them together once again in a test in chennai a decade later and braved a bad back to score a last innings ton.

Against M and W, ponting didnt play obviously.tendu played two full series,was MOTS in Aus and averaged 50 in the 2001 series in India,scoring a ton in the decider.


Against Amby Walsh, tendu did better, but Ponting did better against donald/pollock (tendu still got 2 superb tons against donald in Sa in the 90s). Pray tell me how Ponting has done better.

Even ignoring that ponting averages 26(which, to be pedantic, has inflated post kumble and against harby past his peak) in tendu's home whereas tendu averages 58 in punter's, tendu has a better overseas record excl zim and bang.
 
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Top_Cat

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Ahh, interesting. Now that you mention it, I can't remember too many times when he tried to frustrate batsmen into getting out. But that might be because my impression of him was largely based on matches against India when he hardly needed to!
Yeah, exactly. His game was geared to fairly bowler-friendly conditions and in OZ, even in the 90's, the guys who did the best had the capability to throttle back when needed and still be a threat even when holding a line/length. Guys like Taylor, Slater and Elliott played him very well too, just sweating on him losing patience. Blokes like them fed off emotional bowlers like Donald. Contrastingly, they all seemed to struggle against less emotional types like Ambi. My opinion but I reckon being difficult to get a bead on emotionally spooks Aussie batters.

He did have one spell where he did throttle back and it was on his first tour. When Fanie demolished the Aussies in Melbs, on the last day, Donald bowled a brilliant spell in support, just maintaining the pressure, knocking over AB and Mark Waugh. More spells like that and I reckon he'd have won SA a series here.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Not to interrupt you; but Ponting scored 197 against Wasim, Akram and Saqlain. Only Waqar wasn't there.
 

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Yeah, exactly. His game was geared to fairly bowler-friendly conditions and in OZ, even in the 90's, the guys who did the best had the capability to throttle back when needed and still be a threat even when holding a line/length. Guys like Taylor, Slater and Elliott played him very well too, just sweating on him losing patience. Blokes like them fed off emotional bowlers like Donald. Contrastingly, they all seemed to struggle against less emotional types like Ambi. My opinion but I reckon being difficult to get a bead on emotionally spooks Aussie batters.

He did have one spell where he did throttle back and it was on his first tour. When Fanie demolished the Aussies in Melbs, on the last day, Donald bowled a brilliant spell in support of Fanie, just maintaining the pressure, knocking over AB and Mark Waugh. More spells like that and I reckon he'd have won SA a series here.
To be fair, if Donald wasnt injured in 98 at the Adelaide test SA wouldve easily won that test and drawn the series, remember the Mark Waugh hit wicket that wasnt? We hung on for a close draw, Donald was so missing for SA. He'd bowled really hostile in the first two tests. Had the Waugh boys in tremendous trouble in the SCG test, hit on the body everywhere. Cronje throwing a stump through the umpires door after the 3rd test draw was a classic!
 
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shankar

International Debutant
I wouldn't call it a no contest since Ponting junior scored a ton in his first ever innings against him. Just had to see the series. Ponting scored 137 runs in his first test against Donald and 62 in the second test and didn't need to bat again. He wasn't troubled; Australia wasn't troubled really. Ironically, the thing I remember about that series is Kallis and Cronje saving their asses. And I am terrible at remembering stuff yet that one sticks out.
Sure, it seems to have been a great inning. But saying Donald didnt trouble him in 3 innings doesn't mean anything though! I mean if someone only saw 3 innings of Ponting in that 2001 series in India, they'll wrongly judge him to be hopeless against spin. You need some sort of a sample to make such judgements.


Even in the last 5 balls stat you brought up Ponting scored 11 runs off Donald. You take all the great pace bowlers in the 90s (Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock and Walsh (he didn't play Ambrose) he averages 56 in some 27 test matches. That many matches across those bowlers; it's not really coincidental IMO. And this was at a time he was still developing and finding his place in the team.
Again this involves 4 innings against W&W of 0,0,0,197. Again this is a hopelessly small sample that didn't prove anything except that he's capable of such innings against the best.

Now, he played against Walsh over 9 matches. Now this is a significant sample. He averaged 40 which was a very good performance imo.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I've heard what TC has said about Donald from others but my impression of him overall was so different. He was so destructive - he has an SR even better than Marshall, which is unbelievable in itself.
 

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Not to interrupt you; but Ponting scored 197 against Wasim, Akram and Saqlain. Only Waqar wasn't there.
Plus Shoaib too on a VERY quick Perth pitch. Aus were 4/50 from memory and Punter played a sensational innings. Lots of hooking and pulling. Saqlain was pretty ordinary, but Akram was on fire early on and Punter was coming off 3 ducks (?) and just played out of his skin.
 

Top_Cat

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Yeah that spell in Sydney was one which came to mind but it sorta supports my point I guess; he bowled his bollocks off trying to get the Waughs but just couldn't quite close the deal. Before and after that, he went missing. As the experienced member of a very inexperienced attack at the time, that should count against him a bit I reckon.

I think you're right, though. The Adelaide Test was all South Africa and Australia were a bit lucky to get away with a draw.
 

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
One of Ponting's most underrated innings was his 88 in 1996 on a green seamer at the Gabba vs Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop etc, was a bit lucky early but looked a quality player.

Always think its hard to compare ANY players who bat in different positions too, which is why ive thought its stupid to even compare Sachin and Punter.
 

Top_Cat

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I've heard what TC has said about Donald from others but my impression of him overall was so different. He was so destructive - he has an SR even better than Marshall, which is unbelievable in itself.
Just going on what I've heard, tbh. True or not, that was the way the Aussie top-order viewed him. Get through that first spell and he'd give you plenty work with later. Of course, being a top-class quick, getting through that first spell wasn't easy!
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Sure, it seems to have been a great inning. But saying Donald didnt trouble him in 3 innings doesn't mean anything though! I mean if someone only saw 3 innings of Ponting in that 2001 series in India, they'll wrongly judge him to be hopeless against spin. You need some sort of a sample to make such judgements.

Again this involves 4 innings against W&W of 0,0,0,197. Again this is a hopelessly small sample that didn't prove anything except that he's capable of such innings against the best.

Now, he played against Walsh over 9 matches. Now this is a significant sample. He averaged 40 which was a very good performance imo.
What the above shows is that across all those innings, which is a fairly large sample, he made a significant amount of runs. It's veryunlikely for someone to fluke that kind of average across all those bowlers even if he were to play them 2 tests each. It's very unlikely. In fact, I can't think of a bowler who really got on top of Ponting be it pace or spin, international or domestic cricket. The only person who has routinely troubled him is Harbhajan and that only in India.

His record even against the likes of Steyn, Akhtar and Bond is incredible. Averages 62.30 against them - Tendulkar 39.31. He's so across the board good against these top class pacers that it's not much of a question for me, at least personally.

Who do you think has been the best player of pace during his career?
 
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Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
After I got married, the pretty girls in our neighborhood got more comfortable with me and started flashing a friendlier smile whenever I passed them; simply because, they knew that I was domesticated by marriage and I would not try anything silly with them. Likewise, I have softened a little bit towards Ponting of late because I know he is truly and thoroughly beaten by Sachin in their personal race. I don't see him as a threat to Sachin's records anymore - he was never a threat to his stature, anyway. So I am able to appreciate his game a lot better these days.

I cant decide whether this is a better analogy or the one about how the Tendulkar vs Ponting thread is akin to a licensed whorehouse aimed to reduce *** related offences :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

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