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*Official* Australia in India 2010

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
I can't help but think that Siddle should be in for Hauritz.

North (since they refuse to drop him) and Clarke are as good as Hauritz as spinners. Siddle is more of a wicket-taking option.
From Cricinfo:
Siddle's test record:
17 matches, 60 wickets, 31.53 ave, 3.01 e/r, 62.7 s/r

Hauritz's test record:
17 matches, 63 wickets, 34.98 ave, 3.14 e/r, 66.6 s/r

Not a massive difference there tbh, especially we're comparing a spinner with a quick.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Haurrie getting mullered by that batting lineup is nothing to be too critical of. Not sure what people were expecting from him, he must have been under a ridiculous amount of pressure.
 

kingjulian

U19 12th Man
Haha nah, he's just a bit racist. He'd probably try to suggest that it wasn't a coincidence and a ****-storm was eventuate.

Ok that is very ridiculous.

Tbf to the ugly Indian cricketers, Australian team brought its fair share to the game as well. All round...that was the ugliest bunch of men i have seen over 5 days.

Edit: I've got to clarify, that is not why i watched this game.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Odd that Australia, according to the rankings, are now the worst they've ever been... but these last two test matches have been awesome to watch, both featuring individual brilliance (from the usual suspects), as well as 5th-day results. And not Eng-SA plod about till tea on 5th day then light a massive ****ing fire results, either.

While I wanted Australia to win, and going 2-0 down is a real sadmaker, going into the Ashes ranked below England seems about right.
The rankings have been around for what, seven years?
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
But anyway, I'm not saying North is the absolute best for no.6, Khawaja or someone else might prove better. I'm just saying that to judge someones average after a meagre 19 matches is just stupid. As it is, North's average of 37 isn't that far from his FC average of 43. So he probably won't improve that much more. That being said, there are suprisingly few Australian domestic batsmen who have a better FC than North.
Not too sure if you're being serious here or not, but 19 Tests is more than enough to figure out how good someone is. If you've played 32 Test innings and still average under 40, and you're on the wrong side of 30, it's time to go, especially given that he's shown no signs of overcoming his boom or bust problem.


Na too much of a short term option. 1, 2 years max and he'll have to retire. Who know anyway with D Hussey, his form might drop anytime soon like his brothers.

I think he best option for the team would be to replace M Hussey ASAP with one of the young batsmen. Maybe Khawaja. I would keep North for now. A no.6 averaged 40ish is seriously not that bad...

Australia is gonna have to get used to having far fewer batsmen averaging 50's.
Except he doesn't average 40ish. He averages 37, which is propped up from 35 from a century in his last game, and will more than likely be followed by a string of cheap dismissals like we saw in the second innings. Any team, but especially Australia at the moment given the inconsistency of the middle order, needs a number 6 that can at least stick out it for 30-40 runs each innings, and that is precisely what North hasn't been doing. I'm firmly with howardj here, the sooner North and Hussey are gone the better.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
From Cricinfo:
Siddle's test record:
17 matches, 60 wickets, 31.53 ave, 3.01 e/r, 62.7 s/r

Hauritz's test record:
17 matches, 63 wickets, 34.98 ave, 3.14 e/r, 66.6 s/r

Not a massive difference there tbh, especially we're comparing a spinner with a quick.
I think that average flatters Hauritz quite a bit though, even if it doesn't necessarily flatter the way he's bowled in his Test career. Given they've both only played seventeen matches I still think what they've done at First Class level is still quite relevant, especially ahead of a home series.

Basically, I don't think there's really any question over the fact that Siddle is a much better bowler than Hauritz. The question is over whether the variety Hauritz offers makes up for it and I'm defninitely leaning towards no, given his inability to be a bigger factor on a turning wicket. Hauritz doesn't seem to be any more effective when the ball is turning than when it isn't, so on that basis he doesn't really provide anything a quick couldn't. Unless he can actually be one of the Australia's best four bowlers in own right (and I don't think he's in the top fifteen) or provide something others can't in certain conditions or at certain times, there's no point having him IMO. Basically, there aren't really any circumstances where Hauritz is more likely to take a wicket than Siddle, short of Devon Smith walking to the wicket.
 

Shri

Mr. Glass
Is it a pattern in tests to get your best ODI player into the no.6 position in tests? Aus tried Bevan there in the past and found success with Symonds in that position. India has had Yuvraj and Raina at 6. RSA had Klusener at 6. Why not try Callum Ferguson at 6? Couldn't be much more of a failure compared to North if he deliberately tried imo. Worth a shot to have an aggressive bat at 6 who can also play moderately.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Is it a pattern in tests to get your best ODI player into the no.6 position in tests? Aus tried Bevan there in the past and found success with Symonds in that position. India has had Yuvraj and Raina at 6. RSA had Klusener at 6. Why not try Callum Ferguson at 6? Couldn't be much more of a failure compared to North if he deliberately tried imo. Worth a shot to have an aggressive bat at 6 who can also play moderately.
Australia tried Bevan there because he was averaging about 1000 in First Class cricket, and he failed anyway. Terrible example. Yuvraj was hardly a success either.

The bloke batting six for you in Tests should be your best Test #6, excluding those already batting in the top five. Fair simple.
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
I think that average flatters Hauritz quite a bit though, even if it doesn't necessarily flatter the way he's bowled in his Test career. Given they've both only played seventeen matches I still think what they've done at First Class level is still quite relevant, especially ahead of a home series.

Basically, I don't think there's really any question over the fact that Siddle is a much better bowler than Hauritz. The question is over whether the variety Hauritz offers makes up for it and I'm defninitely leaning towards no, given his inability to be a bigger factor on a turning wicket. Hauritz doesn't seem to be any more effective when the ball is turning than when it isn't, so on that basis he doesn't really provide anything a quick couldn't. Unless he can actually be one of the Australia's best four bowlers in own right (and I don't think he's in the top fifteen) or provide something others can't in certain conditions or at certain times, there's no point having him IMO. Basically, there aren't really any circumstances where Hauritz is more likely to take a wicket than Siddle, short of Devon Smith walking to the wicket.
To quote your avatar, I disagree. I think Hauritz is much improved in his time in the Aussie setup and that his FC record is pretty irrelevant these days. I'm a fan of Siddle and don't mean my comment as a knock on him, but I'm pointing out that in an equal number of tests, in 30+ innings, there's actually been little difference in their output. I think the call for a fourth specialist quick ignores that a fourth (fifth with Watson in the team) quick will bring little that isn't already present in better players already in the team. What do we think that Siddle or George is going to add that Bollinger, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Watson don't already contribute?

Hauritz is marginal I agree, but the guy's essentially done his job more often than not, and done it reasonably well. I think the attack is better with him in it.
 

Jayzamann

International Regular
The rankings have been around for what, seven years?
Yeah hence the oddness, there's probably going to be a **** ton of hooplah made about them going into Brisbane.

They have done retroactive rankings for players, but not teams, iirc. Seeing how consistently Bradman was above 900 ranking points throughout his career is mindboggling.
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
To quote your avatar, I disagree. I think Hauritz is much improved in his time in the Aussie setup and that his FC record is pretty irrelevant these days. I'm a fan of Siddle and don't mean my comment as a knock on him, but I'm pointing out that in an equal number of tests, in 30+ innings, there's actually been little difference in their output. I think the call for a fourth specialist quick ignores that a fourth (fifth with Watson in the team) quick will bring little that isn't already present in better players already in the team. What do we think that Siddle or George is going to add that Bollinger, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Watson don't already contribute?

Hauritz is marginal I agree, but the guy's essentially done his job more often than not, and done it reasonably well. I think the attack is better with him in it.
I think the real question is - what does Hauritz add that the others don't? Because it certainly isn't the ability to take advantage of a wearing wicket or spin-friendly conditions - the fact that he's a spinner is a massive bluff with regards to when he's been useful at Test level. Unless he can either provide something different - and bowling with a different action doesn't qualify - he should be judged on his quality against the other bowlers. He falls short against Siddle and Harris just for a start.
 
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Ruckus

International Captain
Not too sure if you're being serious here or not, but 19 Tests is more than enough to figure out how good someone is. If you've played 32 Test innings and still average under 40, and you're on the wrong side of 30, it's time to go, especially given that he's shown no signs of overcoming his boom or bust problem.




Except he doesn't average 40ish. He averages 37, which is propped up from 35 from a century in his last game, and will more than likely be followed by a string of cheap dismissals like we saw in the second innings. Any team, but especially Australia at the moment given the inconsistency of the middle order, needs a number 6 that can at least stick out it for 30-40 runs each innings, and that is precisely what North hasn't been doing. I'm firmly with howardj here, the sooner North and Hussey are gone the better.
"Not too sure if you're being serious here or not". Why would you even say that? I think its pretty obvious I was being serious, just makes you sound like a smart ass.

I still maintain 19 tests isn't enough to see how good someone is. In the first 4 years of his career Ponting averaged 45. Is that how good Ponting is? No, he is a 50+ batsmen. Conversely, Hussey averaged about 80 in the first 3 years of his career. Is that how good Hussey is? No, he is a 50 average Batsman. It proves nothing that North averages 37 after 19 matches. He is only 31 and I believe he will improve that average to around 40-45, given the class he has shown in certain innings (like the last century he made). If North fails in the Ashes then I will say it is time up for him, but until then I think he remains a reasonable option for no 6. I don't agree that we need to have a no 6. who consistently makes 30-40 runs as you say. If the inconsistency in the middle order is resolved, which I think is primarily due to Hussey (who need to be replaced ASAP), then having a 'century-or-nothing' no 6. shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
I think the real question is - what does Hauritz add that the others don't? Because it certainly isn't the ability to take advantage of a wearing wicket or spin-friendly conditions - the fact that he's a spinner is a massive bluff with regards to when he's been useful at Test level. Unless he can either provide something different - and bowling with a different action doesn't qualify - he should be judged on his quality against the other bowlers. He falls short against Siddle and Harris just for a start.
I think he gives the attack some variety, and I think variety can be an important tool to dislodge batsmen, or to take advantage of the test players out there who are all at sea against spin. Yeah, North can bowl spin, but North is much less deserving of his spot than Ritzy at the moment, so I don't think that's a sensible solution. Clarke and Katich can't be relied on as they both have fitness concerns relating to their ability to bowl.

He gives Ponting a bit more room to breathe on over-rates, and when not facing a rampant Tendulkar on home soil, scoring tempo. He can play the role of keeping things tidy and getting through his overs reasonably quickly from one end while the quicks rotate at the other, and I think that makes the attack better. It certainly normally helps Ponting juggle the attack.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
For a bloke who's captaining a team which to most people isn't a conclusive #1, MS has a great Test record as captain. No real complaints with him when judging his stint in it's entirety.
Has it been a surprise? I don't mean that rhetorically, but a genuine question. What were the thoughts when he was announced captain at the time?
 

Ruckus

International Captain
I think he gives the attack some variety, and I think variety can be an important tool to dislodge batsmen, or to take advantage of the test players out there who are all at sea against spin. Yeah, North can bowl spin, but North is much less deserving of his spot than Ritzy at the moment, so I don't think that's a sensible solution. Clarke and Katich can't be relied on as they both have fitness concerns relating to their ability to bowl.

He gives Ponting a bit more room to breathe on over-rates, and when not facing a rampant Tendulkar on home soil, scoring tempo. He can play the role of keeping things tidy and getting through his overs reasonably quickly from one end while the quicks rotate at the other, and I think that makes the attack better. It certainly normally helps Ponting juggle the attack.
All those things sound like things Smith could do tbh...
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Ok that is very ridiculous.

Tbf to the ugly Indian cricketers, Australian team brought its fair share to the game as well. All round...that was the ugliest bunch of men i have seen over 5 days.

Edit: I've got to clarify, that is not why i watched this game.
There's too many ugly cricketers in the world at the moment.
 

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