1990-1999 the pakistan pitches always had something for bowlers,I mean mostly against newzealand,zimbabwe,srilanka who did not have a strong seam attack there were some greentops,Nowadays you see a greentop rarely in subcontinent.
I watched that test the westindian battinghas been poor for many years now,As i said the ball was keeping low and also there was reverse swing ,you need some help unlike F-1 tracks which provide no help even on 5th day,you can look at vaas stats in india and agianst india in srilanka he was hammered on flat pitches.
Sharma touched 147km/h in T20 in nz and in test he was 137-144km/h consistently.
We are talking about true roads and conditions when the ball does not reverse.
All pakistan bowlers were ineffective in pakistan and india.
England used some shinning substance remember.Also duke ball swings more than kokaburra or s.g
Pitches now are not degrading thats the problem they stay flat for 5 days.
Please show me any series between 1990-1999 in PAK that you know of where they had bowlers bowler friendly pitches. Since i know nothing about that.
The Windies batting in that 2008 series at least wasn't poor - so no reason to generalise. That test is the perfect example of what i was saying all along & squashes your notion that Vaas doesn't bowl well on flat pitches.
Not sure why you are stressing about his record vs India solely. The man averages 26 in SRI which has ALWAYS had 90% of the time always had flat pitches during this time, i'm not sure how you can debate this & he has taken big wickets hauls vs the major nations too.
Again i dont recall Sharma getting anywhere close to 147 at any point of the 2008 tour to NZ.
What do you mean in your definition & understanding of "true roads"?. Since AFAIC & have seen in my time in international cricket even on the most flattish pitches - great fast-bowlers who can reverse swing the ball - we get it to reverse in such conditions. Michael Holding @ the Oval 1976 is one of the greatest examples of this.
England did not use any shinning substances on the ball during the 2005 Ashes. I dont know where you got that info from.
The Duke doesn't really swing more than the Kookubura or SG. Its a bit more complicated that:
I would say Kookaburra swings more in the beginning than the Duke ball. But the kook starts to soften after 35-40 overs and batting becomes a lot easier as it seems to get softer and loses the seam. Reverse swing thus comes into play earlier with the Kook (but then again pitch & ground conditions would influence this as well).
With the Duke keeps swinging for long than the Kook or SG ball & takes longer to get soften. Thus swing bowlers will get help for longer & reverse-swing may take longer to come into play, usually after 50 overs (although again, pitch & ground conditions & overhead conditions, would influence the rate of ball deterioration).
Majority of pitches worldwide in the last decade indeed do stay flat for 5 days. But you certainly had a fair amount of pitches that deteriorated as the a test progressed.
when ever india has played a full strength batting lineup against in last 2 series india has won they won in kolkatta when we had half our team out due to injuries,The top 7 sa batsman outside kallis are also sitting ducks in your terminology in pace friendly conditions.
Not true at all. I see nothing wrong with the likes of Smith, Petersen, Amla, De Villiers, Prince batting in pace friendly conditons. All of them are range from good to very good.
Cruxdude said:
Haven't read the whole argument but it does seem like Aussie is trying to clump all sub continent pitches together as flat tracks. While they may be relatively easier to score runs off fast bowlers on but not all of them are the dead tracks that seem to turn up every now and then. Ishant has been low on confidence and has been bowling a lot on dead tracks. I still think he can be a very good bowler.
All sub-continet tracks are flat tracks. Just that some countries (Pakistan especially) historically have more flat tracks than IND & SRI, who usually have alot of turners.
AFAIHS. Sharma's low confidence has be a consequence of his decline from the bowlers who came on the scene - rather than a fact that he has been bowling on a lot of flat pitches.
As i mentione before 2 years vs AUS in IND, on flat pitches. Sharma was bowling fast & getting wonderful reverse swing, showing all the great early skills that top fast-bowlers need to have to bowl on roads. Since then his pace has declined & that ability has vanisehd as well. I can see it no other way.
He has a LOT of recovering to do, if he is to become a good test bowler again. But gut feelings tells me, he may become another I Pathan.
), so figured I'd bring the clash of the titans thread back up after India's recent success.
