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*Official* - Road to India in South Africa - 2010-11

akilana

International 12th Man
That match was on sub-standard pitch
so was the pitch prepared for sa in the 3rd test in 08.

indian spinners bowled really well in that 04 series but it was their batsmen who failed them at critical stages and that's why they lost. sachin didn't play two tests. luxman and dravid both had poor series.

for australia, only martyn and clarke were fantastic. hayden, langer, ponting, lehman and gilly bar one innings had poor series with the bat.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Well when i said since the 90s, i should have said since the 96/97 tour to India. The improvement started from the 99/00 tour for sure. But the SA batting in that 99/00 was indeed a bit more solid againts spin that the 08 & 2010 batting sides overall.
Think even that side were better players of spin. With the exception of Gibbs most of them were fairly good against spin especially Kirsten, Cullinan and Cronje. The blood that they lost that series was moreat the hands of Srinath than it was on Kumble, and that series was really what announced Srinath as a world class pace bowler.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
so was the pitch prepared for sa in the 3rd test in 08.

indian spinners bowled really well in that 04 series but it was their batsmen who failed them at critical stages and that's why they lost. sachin didn't play two tests. luxman and dravid both had poor series.

for australia, only martyn and clarke were fantastic. hayden, langer, ponting, lehman and gilly bar one innings had poor series with the bat.
No. Mumbai 04 was a sub-standard ptich because seasonal rain before the game, affected the pitch preparation. Which for a Mumabi pitch with its unique red soil which in all the test i've seen at that ground:

- vs SA 2000
- vs AUS 2001
- vs ENG 2006

Is fairly bowler friendly enough already, Since both the quicks & spinners get alot of help. That 04 Mumabi pitch played below standard all those other surfaces because of poor pitch preperation.

Kanpur 08 was not sub-stanadrd, that was an acceptable turner. SA batsmen where just exposed.

India's batting in 04 had poor series, because AUS bowlers exposed them technically.

Of coruse Martyn, Clarke & Katich where the standout AUS batsmen in that 2004 tour. But you compare each AUS batsmen in that 2004 series performance for those who played in IND 2001, all of them improved their play againts spin even if it wasn't superb. Which overall gave the batting a more compact feel, which aided them in preventing that kind of mega collapsed that occured in 2001 & 1998.

Langer came into that 04 series. On the back of career defining innings againts spin where he scored superb 166 in SRI. For a man growing up in WA & having all those early career issues againt spin, that was a monumental knock & he chipped in solidly often enough in that 2004 series.

Lehmann & Ponting played 1 test each so nothing can be judged from that. But given that Lehmmann for eg was equal to Martyn in equally/slightly more difficult spinner firiendly conditions in SRI 04. I would have backed Lehmann to dominate/done well if he played all 4 tests.

Gilly was his usually self vs spin in that 2004. Very hit & miss. But clearly some improved solidity to his batting compared to the 2001 series was present, when he looked like a walking wicket after his Mumbai 01. His 49 in the chennai 2nd innings where he came in @ # 3 in a very crucial stage of the manage a played key innings in the context of that test.

Hayden had a average series in 2004. It was poor if you compare it to his 2001 tour exploits or that SRI 04 batting performance before that series. But he never looked lost or was technicaly exposed againts the spin, which is key distinction. He kept looking good in the many starts he had - before getting out in many different ways.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
hayden, langer and lehman averaged 30, 28, and 26 respectively with a total of 4 50s between them. poor by any standards. hardly any improvement from the past. not starting on ponting but all of them were exposed like mckenzie and prince were. australia were exposed of their weakness agaisnt spin bowling everytime they visited India. it is just the India batting that lost them the 04 series and not Australia's ability to play spin. historically SA has fared better in india than australia.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
hayden, langer and lehman averaged 30, 28, and 26 respectively with a total of 4 50s between them. poor by any standards. hardly any improvement from the past. not starting on ponting but all of them were exposed like mckenzie and prince were. australia were exposed of their weakness agaisnt spin bowling everytime they visited India. it is just the India batting that lost them the 04 series and not Australia's ability to play spin. historically SA has fared better in india than australia.
If you saw Langer bat in India 2001 or anytime in the 90s, it was quite obvious he had improved in his ability againts spin in that 2004 series. That really is not debatable my friend.

As i said Lehmann played 1 test, you can't judge anything by that. Do you disagree with my estimation that given that in equally/slightly more difficult spinner friendly condtions, in Australia tour to Sri Lanka 2004, just before the Indian 04 tour. Where a fully-fit Lehmann dominated Murali/Heath & co, that if he was fully fit he would have most likely done the same in the 2004 series in IND?.

On Hayden again. Although his series output was average. He was not exposed technically to the Indian spinners, he never looked like a walking wicket in that 2004 series, compared to some of the SA batsmen in 08 & 2010. Do you disagree with the notion that if a batsman has a average series, in which he has poor series outcome due to him get starting & not carying on with them. Is diffferent from a batsman have a poor series outcome by bowler exposing a technical flaw in the batsman's game, thus getting the batsman out one-way all the time or the planned dismisssals?.


AUS won in India 04. By a combination of their bowlers owning the IND batsmen & AUS batsmen in general playing spin far more competently than they did in the past.

SA indeed have a slightly better record in India since readmission than AUS. But that is sort of irrelevant to this discussions. Since we are comparing why a top AUS side with all bases covered won in India 04 & why equally top SA sides in 08 & 2010 didn't, because they didn't have all bases covered.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
so was the pitch prepared for sa in the 3rd test in 08.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

If that pitch was substandard, the team batting first would have won.

A turner does not mean the pitch is substandard FFS.

Hate this **** on CW.

A green wicket where teams get bowled out for 150 = awesome cricket.

A spin friendly wicket = sub-standard.

Rubbish.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Turners are great tbh. Spinners have a hard life since the advent of covered wickets.
And cricket has been better for it. Since uncovered was one of the craziest things in cricket history, spinners & bowlers in general had a ridiculous advantage in such conditions.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

If that pitch was substandard, the team batting first would have won.

A turner does not mean the pitch is substandard FFS.

Hate this **** on CW.

A green wicket where teams get bowled out for 150 = awesome cricket.

A spin friendly wicket = sub-standard.

Rubbish.
Although Kanpur 08 was not a substand pitch & was an acceptable turner.

By ICC regulations certain type of turning pitches, usually caused by it being underprepared due too much water on it etc - is a substandard test pitch. This is why sticy wickets have been banned/ceased to exist since the late 1960s.

It is not logical for greentoops to be considered bad test pitch. How can you underprepare a pitch by allowing a fair amount of grass to be on the pitch?

That can't happen, you have the let field grass grow on the entire playing surface, which obviously would never happen.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Although Kanpur 08 was not a substand pitch & was an acceptable turner.

By ICC regulations certain type of turning pitches, usually caused by it being underprepared due too much water on it etc - is a substandard test pitch. This is why sticy wickets have been banned/ceased to exist since the late 1960s.

It is not logical for greentoops to be considered bad test pitch. How can you underprepare a pitch by allowing a fair amount of grass to be on the pitch?

That can't happen, you have the let field grass grow on the entire playing surface, which obviously would never happen.
why are "certain" type of seaming pitches NOT substamdard btw? And can u link to these so called "regulations"???:
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
There are more chances of a batsmen getting hurt on a real fast and nasty pitch like Perth than a turner.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
why are "certain" type of seaming pitches NOT substamdard btw? And can u link to these so called "regulations"???:
It can be. Darwin 2004 with AUS vs SRI immediately comes to mind. In which although it was a seaming wicket, the pitch wasn't that well prepared given the bounce was extremely uneven, which made it substandard.

But that usually does not happen on proper seaming pitches.

The regulations that pitches should be covered & not over watered before & during a test, so that it doesn't become a sticky wicket. I would think is a universally known.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
There are more chances of a batsmen getting hurt on a real fast and nasty pitch like Perth than a turner.
Yea. But that doesn't make such a Perth, Kingston, Barbados pitch substandard.

Facing 90 mph bowling on such pitches is just difficult batting conditions, which indeed only truly great batsman have made runs on in test history. Facing Barnes/O'Reilly/Underwood on a uncovered wicket - is an unfair advantage to bowlers (which is why UCWs have been have ceased to exist). Two totally uncomparable things.
 

sachin200

U19 12th Man
Heard news that top indian players will skip NZ ODIs and go to SA to acclimatise before the TEST series......
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
That is brilliant!

**** we're suddenly doing things smart for once.
Need a credible source for that story still... No way is BCCI letting go of lucrative ODIs with big crowds..


But then again, perhaps the tickets are already sold?????
 

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