The Best of The Rest - NZ, WI, Pak, Bang in tests

[Migara]

Yasir Hamid may play a big role as well. If they get back Younus Khan, then they'll be really competitive.

 

[pasag]

MoYo's just covering up the cracks though, he's 36 in a week or so and won't be around for much longer you'd think.

 

[Jezroy]

MoYo's just covering up the cracks though, he's 36 in a week or so and won't be around for much longer you'd think.

You're never to old as long as you want to keep playing and scoring runs. If only Crowe/Astle/Fleming had been able to play for us to 36 and beyond.

 

[slowfinger]

You're never to old as long as you want to keep playing and scoring runs. If only Crowe/Astle/Fleming had been able to play for us to 36 and beyond.

That reminds me exactly of Akhtar.

 

[Himannv]

i pray we have our full team when we go to Sri-lanka in November because i honestly think we can put up a fair fight out there.

Blast from the past. Pray hard sonny..

 

[aussie]

Clealry PAK especially if they get Younis Khan back. Although i would think if the windies gets to play a Taylor/Roach/Edwards in an attack soon. A Pakistan vs Windies series could be very interesintg.

 

[Howsie]

There are no guarantees that an attack of Jerome Taylor, Fidel Edwards and Kemar Roach will be anything better then average, heck there are no guarantees that we'll even ever see them bowl together. Taylor's been an inconsistant test bowler for over three years now, Edwards up until 2008-09 was a really bad test bowler and just when it looked as though he was turning the corner he picked up an injury and hasn't managed to play a test for well over a year, he's more then likely going to come back as the poor version of Fidel Edwards then the one we saw between 08 and 09. Roach has looked good in spurts but again when you look at his overall record it's fairly average (taking out Bangladesh ftr).

Three bowlers capable of bowling at 150K plus sounds good I know, but the reality is that neither Taylor nor Edwards have been test class for an extended period of time, coming back from long injury layoffs that's probably not going to change.

 

[GotSpin]

There are no guarantees that an attack of Jerome Taylor, Fidel Edwards and Kemar Roach will be anything better then average, heck there are no guarantees that we'll even ever see them bowl together. Taylor's been an inconsistant test bowler for over three years now, Edwards up until 2008-09 was a really bad test bowler and just when it looked as though he was turning the corner he picked up an injury and hasn't managed to play a test for well over a year, he's more then likely going to come back as the poor version of Fidel Edwards then the one we saw between 08 and 09. Roach has looked good in spurts but again when you look at his overall record it's fairly average (taking out Bangladesh ftr).

Three bowlers capable of bowling at 150K plus sounds good I know, but the reality is that neither Taylor nor Edwards have been test class for an extended period of time, coming back from long injury layoffs that's probably not going to change.

Harsh on Roach. Really think he'll become one of the worlds best bowlers in 2-3 years time.

 

[Howsie]

Harsh on Roach. Really think he'll become one of the worlds best bowlers in 2-3 years time.

Not really. Like you I have high hopes for him but he's hardly done anything of note in test cricket so far in his career, bar bowl a few decent spells.

 

[Prince EWS]

Not really. Like you I have high hopes for him but he's hardly done anything of note in test cricket so far in his career, bar bowl a few decent spells.

Yep, this. His potential is undoubted but his performances so far have been vastly over-rated.

 

[aussie]

There are no guarantees that an attack of Jerome Taylor, Fidel Edwards and Kemar Roach will be anything better then average, heck there are no guarantees that we'll even ever see them bowl together. Taylor's been an inconsistant test bowler for over three years now, Edwards up until 2008-09 was a really bad test bowler and just when it looked as though he was turning the corner he picked up an injury and hasn't managed to play a test for well over a year, he's more then likely going to come back as the poor version of Fidel Edwards then the one we saw between 08 and 09. Roach has looked good in spurts but again when you look at his overall record it's fairly average (taking out Bangladesh ftr).

Three bowlers capable of bowling at 150K plus sounds good I know, but the reality is that neither Taylor nor Edwards have been test class for an extended period of time, coming back from long injury layoffs that's probably not going to change.

Have to disagree Howsie sir.

I would say Taylor is at least on par with if not better than Umar Gul. I'm not sure where you got the analyss from that he has been inconistent for 3 years now. He actually since 2006 has been the most consistently & dependable windies bowler & is improving all the time (recent injuries ins the only thing thats kept him back). Taylor 5/11 vs ENG when windies bowled ENG out for 51 in 2009 is one of the best spells of fast-bowling of the 200s era.

Edwards also as you said (since 2007/08 instead of 08/09) when WI played SA was average test bowler. But thats hardly his fault given he was picked for test basically by Lara after bowling to him in the nets in 03 with no FC experience so he was bascially learning on the job up untuil his breakout year in 07/08. Which since he has taken 7 & 6 wicket hauls vs NZ & ENG.

Of course give his abck injury it could definately affect his progress when/if he comes back. But its not impossible to come back strong from a back injury, Lillee did it - so fingers crossed for hi, WI & world cricket.

While with Roach he has just impressed in every test i've seen of him since his debut vs AUS last winter into WIs recent series vs SA. I certainly think he has the abiltiy to match Aamir recent expolits as hottest young bowler in the world currently.

So basically if Taylor & Edwards overcome their injures in the near future & continue the improvement they have shown in recent years, along with Roach contining to progress. That attack would be deadly in the pace-bowler friendly conditons - just like the current PAK trio.

 

[G.I.Joe]

MoYo's just covering up the cracks though, he's 36 in a week or so and won't be around for much longer you'd think.

I thought we'd agreed to stop with the puns.

 

[Howsie]

Have to disagree Howsie sir.

I would say Taylor is at least on par with if not better than Umar Gul. I'm not sure where you got the analyss from that he has been inconistent for 3 years now. He actually since 2006 has been the most consistently & dependable windies bowler & is improving all the time (recent injuries ins the only thing thats kept him back). Taylor 5/11 vs ENG when windies bowled ENG out for 51 in 2009 is one of the best spells of fast-bowling of the 200s era.

Edwards also as you said (since 2007/08 instead of 08/09) when WI played SA was average test bowler. But thats hardly his fault given he was picked for test basically by Lara after bowling to him in the nets in 03 with no FC experience so he was bascially learning on the job up untuil his breakout year in 07/08. Which since he has taken 7 & 6 wicket hauls vs NZ & ENG.

Of course give his abck injury it could definately affect his progress when/if he comes back. But its not impossible to come back strong from a back injury, Lillee did it - so fingers crossed for hi, WI & world cricket.

While with Roach he has just impressed in every test i've seen of him since his debut vs AUS last winter into WIs recent series vs SA. I certainly think he has the abiltiy to match Aamir recent expolits as hottest young bowler in the world currently.

So basically if Taylor & Edwards overcome their injures in the near future & continue the improvement they have shown in recent years, along with Roach contining to progress. That attack would be deadly in the pace-bowler friendly conditons - just like the current PAK trio.

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with someone thinking that Taylor's a better test bowler then Umar Gul, but Gul's Pakistan's third best seamer so that's not really saying much. Jerome Taylor's test record since coming back into test cricket in 2006 reads:

2006 28 wickets at 28
2007 10 wickets at 47
2008 27 wickets at 32
2009 14 wickets at 38

One good year followed by a bad year, inconsistancy for mine. You bring up his 5/11 and I ask what did he do after that? Not alot. Harsh because those pitches were as flat as anything but that's Jerome Taylor, brillant one minute average the next.

 

[T-Dub]

Just to get back to original premise of the thread, I feel the order would be

Pak
NZ
WI
Bang

Pak & NZ very close, WI & Bang very close.

Pak wins out because of their formidable bowling, to my mind the most impressive in world cricket at the moment, and the class of MoYo & to an extent the Akmal Bros.

NZ is a bit more consistent with the bat and bat and long, long way down as a team. They still have too many dibbly dobbly bowlers and no true pacemen thus making their attack too toothless. You find that commentators talk about NZ pace as "fast" but other bowlers in other teams bowling the same speeds are regarded as "medium pace". The batting usually relies on one of the top order to kick on, otherwise they juuuust scrape through or lose.

WI have the blasting batsmen and a couple of great prospects with the ball, but overall they seem stuck in the mire at the moment.

Bang are sneakily progressing. 5 years, and a couple of good bowling discoveries they'll be more than a handful. Their mindset is usually what stops them winning; they seem to be content to just bat out the overs than go after a lofty total. Hopefully they can get a bit of killer instinct in them.

 

[Flem274*]

Just to get back to original premise of the thread, I feel the order would be

Pak
NZ
WI
Bang

Pak & NZ very close, WI & Bang very close.

Pak wins out because of their formidable bowling, to my mind the most impressive in world cricket at the moment, and the class of MoYo & to an extent the Akmal Bros.

NZ is a bit more consistent with the bat and bat and long, long way down as a team. They still have too many dibbly dobbly bowlers and no true pacemen thus making their attack too toothless. You find that commentators talk about NZ pace as "fast" but other bowlers in other teams bowling the same speeds are regarded as "medium pace". The batting usually relies on one of the top order to kick on, otherwise they juuuust scrape through or lose.

WI have the blasting batsmen and a couple of great prospects with the ball, but overall they seem stuck in the mire at the moment.

Bang are sneakily progressing. 5 years, and a couple of good bowling discoveries they'll be more than a handful. Their mindset is usually what stops them winning; they seem to be content to just bat out the overs than go after a lofty total. Hopefully they can get a bit of killer instinct in them.

Agree with most of this post but generally I find the opposite is true. Unless they're an out and out quick some of the lesser international commentators lump them in the hard working medium pace bracket, even when Chris Martin and Iain O'Brien were hovering around 140kph.

We don't have any blatant medium pacers bar Tuffey and Franklin. McKay is pretty slick, Martin is mid-130s and so is Southee, Arnel, etc.

 

[Jezroy]

Well, we officially get to see a Pakistan vs NZ rematch this coming season.

A 2 tester. Awesome. So looking forward to wishing there was a 3rd test.

 

[Bahnz]

Well, we officially get to see a Pakistan vs NZ rematch this coming season.

A 2 tester. Awesome. So looking forward to wishing there was a 3rd test.

I just love how New Zealand's cricketers are constantly moaning about how little test cricket they play, and yet they (and the NZC) take every opportunity that arises to reduce the number of matches they play.

 

[Hurricane]

I just love how New Zealand's cricketers are constantly moaning about how little test cricket they play, and yet they (and the NZC) take every opportunity that arises to reduce the number of matches they play.

And....In part because playing two 20.20s is an important non negotiable part of the schedule.

 

[Jigga988]

Just to get back to original premise of the thread, I feel the order would be

Pak
NZ
WI
Bang

Pak & NZ very close, WI & Bang very close.
Pak wins out because of their formidable bowling, to my mind the most impressive in world cricket at the moment, and the class of MoYo & to an extent the Akmal Bros.

To put a full strength Windies side on par with Bangladesh is pretty harsh, in fact at full strength we'd definitely give both Pakistan and NZ a good run... Just a year ago we drew to NZ in NZ so to say they're streaks better is again pretty harsh...

Think the problem lies in the depth of the Windies side, Pak just had Riaz come in and take a 5wh and not one fast bowler is capable in that Windies side outside Roach Edwards and Taylor of doing anything close to that... The three at full fitness is pretty strong, granted not as good as Pakistans, but second in my opinion... Coupled with a full strength batting line up of the likes of Gayle and Sarwan, with Darren Bravo improving all the time, getting ready to replace an aging Shiv, and Dwayne whom is definitely capable of getting his test average up to at least 30... NZ can only really boast Taylor and Vettori, while Pakistan can only boast MoYo, and U. Akmal when he decides to learn how to play test cricket...

Whilst I reckon Pakistan are the strongest of the sides, at full strength Windies would give Pak a good go and just outgun NZ in my mind, though this is pretty far off happening with our seamers, and as our depth is non-existant NZ probs have the edge in that matter...

Btw, one poster (sorry can't remember who) said that Taylor had done nothing since England, and whilst that's completelu true, he's also been injured for the duration since that test match, never being close to full fitness, always playing a test then missing one etc. which obviously does no favours for him...

 

[aussie]

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with someone thinking that Taylor's a better test bowler then Umar Gul, but Gul's Pakistan's third best seamer so that's not really saying much. Jerome Taylor's test record since coming back into test cricket in 2006 reads:

2006 28 wickets at 28
2007 10 wickets at 47
2008 27 wickets at 32
2009 14 wickets at 38

One good year followed by a bad year, inconsistancy for mine. You bring up his 5/11 and I ask what did he do after that? Not alot. Harsh because those pitches were as flat as anything but that's Jerome Taylor, brillant one minute average the next.

Nah you had to watch Taylor bowler in each test since 2006 (his breakout Kingston test vs IND) to 2009. That stats here dont reflect how well he has bowled. (just like how lee averaging 40 in the 05 Ashes & Hilfenhaus 50+ vs SA 08/09 dont reflect how well they bowled)

He has been very reliable to the windies in that 3 year period & has always been their go to bowler. I dont recall him actually have a bad test - no inconsistency at all.

So if he comes back with & is backed up by Roach/Edwards/Bravo consistently, he will continue to improve for sure IMO.