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Which was worse

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
The sheer denial of posters to admit that Ponting made a mistake at Nagpur is incredible. I actually can't believe something so blatant gets defended.

Look, you can argue it doesn't make him a bad captain. You can argue many of the other good things he's done as captain outweigh it. That is a fair enough debate.

But to defend his decision is a bridge too far.
No way & no denail of anything. If Ponting had defied the match ref & bowled the overs out, he would have criticized for being arrogant & disrespectful. Its unfortunate that the team bowled the overs so slowly that they where faced with the predicament. But that was a colelctive tem failure. Spirit of the Game>>>winning.

Its utterly ridiculous as some posters have suggested that Ponting threw the match:

quote said:
This isn't even close, for mine. Throwing a match is much worse than being a bit of a dick in order to win one.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
You have to remember with Australia and Ponting Jono - sometimes the most indefensible decisions (Edgbaston 05, Oval 09 spring to mind) are defended to the hilt.
Now this is ridiculous.

Firstly Egbaston 05 myth will never die. I will never understand how people have continued to claim that just because Ponting chose to bowl first on a seemingly flat wicket - if he had instead bowled first, given that McGrath was injured on the morning, AUS would have won the test. One of the greatest Ashes myths.

How could you bowl out a team for two sub-200 scores in the previous & not be confident in doing it again even with one of your main bowlers out?. For all those ofay with their recent Ashes history, England build up to the 2005 Ashes test was de ja vu to the build up to the 2001 Ashes test. In which like 01, England entered the 05 Ashes coming off a tremendous year of test success. Just like how ENG bubble was blown away in 2001 Egbaston 1st test - ATT it seemed like it would occur again after the AUS win @ Lords 05.

The way ENG counter-attacked on day 1 was totally down to them, showing an unusual steel againts AUS - when historically they would fold. So to say Ponting's decision to bowl first was the reason ENG won - is a total disrespect to how well ENG played.

Fact is the reason AUS lost @ Edgbaston 05 & the Ahses 05 was because their batsmen where exposed technically to reverse-swing of the ENG bowlers. Whether Ponting had batter first or second it would not have stopped the AUS batsmen from being exposed.



Oval 09 is even worse to critique Ponting - DEAR GOD. The dull consensus is that AUS should have played Hauritz given the turn that was present - if he had played AUS would have saved the Ashes.

Thats all dumb nostalagia. Australia had just won the 4th tests by an innings playing an all-pace attacks, Hauritz not playing in the Oval test was not the reason AUS lost that final test & the Ashes. It was Australia ridiculous 1st innings batting collapse in their first innings of the Oval test (which has been a trademark of Australia in this post McGrath/Warne era since Ashes 06/07). Thats what cost them that tests, since they couldn't play catch up from such a position after digging themselves into such a hole.

The pitch was even turning that much on the 4th & 5th days even though North took 4 wickets. Swann didn't exactly spin out Australia in their 2nd innings either.

Hauritz wouldn't have spun out England. Since in the 1st Ashes test @ Cardiff (on a similar wearing pitch to the Oval) when he had chances to do major damage on wearing 4th/5th day surfaces he didn't step up.Opposition batsmen played him fairly comfortably. Nor in the recent Australian summer @ Adelaide & Perth when he got wearing wickets - he couldn't spin out the Windies - nor in Wellington test vs NZ earlier this year. So the suggestion that Ponting should have played Hauritz - when he is proven failure on turning tracks - is madness.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Hang on, Hauritz did step up on day five at Cardiff.

It was your beloved seamers that let the crims down that day, well one in particular.
 
Name the last five captains in a position to do so.
It is very simple, Ponting kept his fast bowlers as long as he could to give them every chance to get the wickets but then had to bring on bowlers to make up the time. You may think that this has never happened in a test match before but it has and every captain has done exactaly the same as what Ponting did.

You and I both know that it would not have mattered what Ponting did, if he kept his pace bowlers on then everyone would have bagged him for not bowling the overs and going against the spirit of the game.
 

Top_Cat

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tbh, I have no idea why Ponting didn't just tell Lee/Johnson/Watto to bowl off 10 rather than bowl Hussey/Clarke. Are quicks these days above such options? Soft if so, every quick worth their salt (Marshall/Hadlee/Lillee/Holding) can still maintain good bowling 10Km/h slower and in Johnson's case, I reckon he'd still send them down at near top pace anyway.

Front-line quicks off 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hussey/Clarke bowling their balls off. I wonder if it was even considered?
 
tbh, I have no idea why Ponting didn't just tell Lee/Johnson/Watto to bowl off 10 rather than bowl Hussey/Clarke. Are quicks these days above such options? Soft if so, every quick worth their salt (Marshall/Hadlee/Lillee/Holding) can still maintain good bowling 10Km/h slower and in Johnson's case, I reckon he'd still send them down at near top pace anyway.

Front-line quicks off 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hussey/Clarke bowling their balls off. I wonder if it was even considered?
Lee was injured and couldent bowl.
 

Top_Cat

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Yeah that's what I thought to but wasn't he telling Ponting he was right to bowl but was prevented from getting to the crease?

Either way, Johnson and the bloke who actually did all the damage pre-tea, Watson, were fit. Baffles they weren't used. Possible Ponting thought it would only take a few quick overs with the part-timers and he'd have the front-liners on in no time?
 
Yeah that's what I thought to but wasn't he telling Ponting he was right to bowl but was prevented from getting to the crease?

Either way, Johnson and the bloke who actually did all the damage pre-tea, Watson, were fit. Baffles they weren't used. Possible Ponting thought it would only take a few quick overs with the part-timers and he'd have the front-liners on in no time?
Australia were beaten by 182 runs and the 18 runs Hussey and White gave up from 6 overs was the difference.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
HB, not your greatest reply mate :p

Name the last five captains in a position to do so.
I don't recall captains being under the threat of a ban if they didn't fix their overrate. Which, ironically, suggests Ponting had been doing precisely what he is being criticised here for not doing, more than other captains.
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
HB, not your greatest reply mate :p



I don't recall captains being under the threat of a ban if they didn't fix their overrate. Which, ironically, suggests Ponting had been doing precisely what he is being criticised here for not doing, more than other captains.
maybe. I juz meant to say the lead came to that figure coz Dhoni and Bhajji were allowed to get their eyes in by these bowlers..
 
yeah.. it is not like you have to pass 18 to make 182 or something, is it? 8-)
When white came onto bowl India were already 254 runs in front which is nearly fifty runs more than what Australia scored in the second innings.

Now to the most idiotic statements that Ponting should have bowled Lee and Johnson at that stage to win the match. Johnson match figures at that stage was 1/106 and Lees match figures were 1/89 yet these two bowlers were going to win the match.

So at the stage when Ponting introduced White the quick bowlers had taken 4 of the 16 wickets in the match and spin bowler Krezja had taken 11 with 1 R/O.

Johnson and Lee were getting belted and had combined match figures of 2/195 and some posters think the underbowling of these two by Ponting is the reason why Australia lost.:laugh::laugh:
 

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