Greatest cricketers since 1980

[silentstriker]

I think Ponting has Sachin and Lara cold in captaincy terms, particularly Lara. I think giving either of the latter two a "B" is very generous.

I don't think Sachin was a good captain, and neither was Lara. I don't know if Ponting would have done better with the teams either had, but that's neither here nor there (he certainly might have and might be the best out of the three). I wouldn't give either Sachin or Lara a B. If 'C' is average, Sachin would be a D, and Lara would probably be a D as well. I think all three were/are poor captains.

But I do think it's telling that if I had to rate all the captains out of the current Test playing nations, I'd rank him near or at the bottom which to me is the mark of a poor captain (or at least below average). From your comments, I am assuming you disagree?

 

[Streetwise]

I don't think Sachin was a good captain, and neither was Lara. I don't know if Ponting would have done better with the teams either had, but that's neither here nor there (he certainly might have and might be the best out of the three). I wouldn't give either Sachin or Lara a B. If 'C' is average, Sachin would be a D, and Lara would probably be a D as well. I think all three were/are poor captains.

But I do think it's telling that if I had to rate all the captains out of the current Test playing nations, I'd rank him near or at the bottom which to me is the mark of a poor captain (or at least below average). From your comments, I am assuming you disagree?

Thats like pulling out 5 games where Murali bowled poorly and saying he is not a great bowler because if you look at these 5 bad bowling performances he isnt quite a A+ bowler. Pontings record as captain speaks for itself, it dosent matter what teams Lara or anyone else had ot captain Ponting achieved results that can only be matched by Waugh. It dosent matter who was in the team, it dosent matter what color jocks Hayden was wearing it is what you acieved with what you have and that is all there is to it. Ponting has achieved huge success with what he has been given and that is all you can ask.

 

[silentstriker]

Also been the only Aussie captain to lose the Ashes twice in England since...?

No, but I am certainly not disputing Ponting's record. It is exceptional and one of the best in the history of cricket, and I think it's fair enough if that's what you want to go on.

 

[Jarquis]

I could've captained that Australia team and won Tests tbf

 

[Matt79]

I could've captained that Australia team and won Tests tbf

Not if you were batting at 3 as well. Always a trap to assume that making bowling changes, field placings, and declarations is all there is to being a captain, or even that any of those things are as easy as they appear from an armchair in front of the tv.

 

[honestbharani]

Not if you were batting at 3 as well. Always a trap to assume that making bowling changes, field placings, and declarations is all there is to being a captain, or even that any of those things are as easy as they appear from an armchair in front of the tv.

But you gotta admit leading the INdian side of the late 90s and the Windies side of the last two decades IS a LOT more than leading THAT Aussie side.. I mean, do you seriously think any of the Aussies would have out partying after being 46 all out in a home test??????

 

[Jarquis]

Not if you were batting at 3 as well. Always a trap to assume that making bowling changes, field placings, and declarations is all there is to being a captain, or even that any of those things are as easy as they appear from an armchair in front of the tv.

Tbf there's a whole lot of matches you've won where Ponting didn't contribue a lot.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would've won every game that you lot won if I was captain.

 

[GotSpin]

Tbf there's a whole lot of matches you've won where Ponting didn't contribue a lot.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would've won every game that you lot won if I was captain.

It's no coincidence that Pontings phenomenal batting peak coincided with a tremendous amount of success as captain - Aside from McWarne

 

[Streetwise]

I could've captained that Australia team and won Tests tbf

Yeah lots of people say that, but none of them ever did.

 

[silentstriker]

Not if you were batting at 3 as well.

Surely, no one is saying his place isn't justified as a batsman!

 

[Streetwise]

Surely, no one is saying his place isn't justified as a batsman!

And due to his ability to keep the Australian team focussed and motivated plus dealing with some big egos his rating as a captain justifies his position as a very good captain.

 

[honestbharani]

And due to his ability to keep the Australian team focussed and motivated plus dealing with some big egos his rating as a captain justifies his position as a very good captain.

Except that the same big egos have shown more than once a willing to put team above self.. Which you cannot always say for players that Sachin and Lara had to lead.. So why does Ponting deserve credit for getting to lead men who had good attitudes imbibed in them already?

 

[Streetwise]

Except that the same big egos have shown more than once a willing to put team above self.. Which you cannot always say for players that Sachin and Lara had to lead.. So why does Ponting deserve credit for getting to lead men who had good attitudes imbibed in them already?

You only have to look at KP (how long was he captain) to see how easily ego's can cause problems, Ponting deserves credit for keeping the team on top. He did that and he deserves credit for it. As for the ODI's there is no disputing he is one of the greatest ODI captains, that is indesputable.

 

[Jarquis]

Yeah lots of people say that, but none of them ever did.

How many were given the chance?

 

[Streetwise]

How many were given the chance?

Everyone had a chance but it was Ponting that took his chance and did a excellent job, sorry I just dont see how doing a very good job should be discredited.

You seem to fancy yourself as a good captain, do you have experience.

 

[silentstriker]

Good God, what have I done?

 

[honestbharani]

You only have to look at KP (how long was he captain) to see how easily ego's can cause problems, Ponting deserves credit for keeping the team on top. He did that and he deserves credit for it. As for the ODI's there is no disputing he is one of the greatest ODI captains, that is indesputable.

Don't think Ponting would have worked out either if he had Freddie playing for him and he had come in a good 7 years after Freddie had debuted.. Some things juz don't work that way.

 

[Streetwise]

Don't think Ponting would have worked out either if he had Freddie playing for him and he had come in a good 7 years after Freddie had debuted.. Some things juz don't work that way.

Many people said Warne should have been captain instead of Ponting but you never hear Warne say anything but good things about Ponting. Ask anyone of the players Ponting captained, Gilly, Hayden, Langer and McGrath and they all have an enormous amount of respect for Ponting.

I dont care one way or another who could have done what but its quite clear Ponting is arguably the best batsman since 1980, one of the greatest fielders since 1980 and one the best captains since 1980. Its just some people cant stomach so much envy in one sitting.

 

[honestbharani]

Many people said Warne should have been captain instead of Ponting but you never hear Warne say anything but good things about Ponting. Ask anyone of the players Ponting captained, Gilly, Hayden, Langer and McGrath and they all have an enormous amount of respect for Ponting.

I dont care one way or another who could have done what but its quite clear Ponting is arguably the best batsman since 1980, one of the greatest fielders since 1980 and one the best captains since 1980. Its just some people cant stomach so much envy in one sitting.

I would expect that from buddies.. And no one here is saying Ponting is a poor man manager.. Juz that there is a LOT more to captaincy than just that. And yes, I think if the same team was given to Sachin and Lara, they would still get the same results..


And you may think he is ARGUABLY the best since 1980.. I think he is CLEARLY NOT. Yeah he is a great fielder and one of the greatest since 1980... The other two categories, he is not even in that company.. Some people just can't stomach so much facts in one sitting easily..

 

[Streetwise]

I would expect that from buddies.. And no one here is saying Ponting is a poor man manager.. Juz that there is a LOT more to captaincy than just that. And yes, I think if the same team was given to Sachin and Lara, they would still get the same results..

Thats the difference HB, my opiion is based on what Ponting did do and you opinion is based on what you think Tendulkar or Lara could have done. Not really the same is it.

And you may think he is ARGUABLY the best since 1980.. I think he is CLEARLY NOT. Yeah he is a great fielder and one of the greatest since 1980... The other two categories, he is not even in that company.. Some people just can't stomach so much facts in one sitting easily..

11,000 odd runs @ 55 makes him arguably the best batsman since 1980, not just me but plenty of others too. I dont have a problem stomaching that.

And another thing

Ponting got 60 points (a first-place vote fetched three points, a second place two, and third place one), 23 more than second-placed Jacques Kallis. Adam Gilchrist was ranked third (29 points), while positions four to seven went to Muttiah Muralitharan, Glenn McGrath, Sachin Tendulkar and Shane Warne.

Ponting scored more runs and centuries in both forms of the game than any other batsman in the decade, and he was the only one to go past the 9000-mark in both Tests and ODIs. In 107 Tests between 2000 and 2009, he scored 9458 runs at 58.38, and 32 of his 38 centuries. Ponting and Kallis, along with Mohammad Yousuf, were the only batsmen to average more than 58 in Tests in the decade.

Ian Chappell, the former Australian captain who was part of the jury, said Ponting's ability to survive difficult periods and also counterattack successfully, made him the best batsman of the decade. New Zealand captain Daniel Vettori said Ponting was the player of the decade "for his ability to dominate bowlers all across the world for such a long time".

Tony Greig, the former England captain, said there hadn't been a modern allrounder who produced as consistently with bat and ball as Kallis did. "Jacques Kallis has been Sobers-like in respect of his all-round contribution for South Africa."

Two of the biggest names of modern cricket, Brian Lara and Sachin Tendulkar didn't fare too well. Lara got just three points, after featuring as No. 1 in one juror's list. Of the 13 jurors who voted for Tendulkar, only three rated him as No. 1. Kumar Sangakkara, Mahela Jayawardene, Matthew Hayden, Graeme Smith, Inzamam-ul-Haq and Mohammad Yousuf were among those who did not get any votes.

Your arguement is week and feeble.