Greatest cricketers since 1980

[silentstriker]

Would also make the win a hollow one in some quarters, I guess.

Whose?

I mean I definitely follow your reasoning, I just can't ever see his actions as a good thing.

 

[Top_Cat]

Siding with SS on this one. The vast majority of people remember the WI team of the 80's for their wins, far less for when they acted like petulant douchebags and slowed the over-rate below 60 per day when they were in trouble in the game.

Ponting was definitely facing a suspension but I would rather have seen him ask Lee/Watson to come in off 10 steps and bowl half rat-power than bring on Hussey at full pace. Frankly, would rather have seen Ponting himself on than Hussey, more likely to take a wicket!

Bowling White/Krejza was fair enough, Watto and the others had bowled their hearts out so rotating those two at the other end would have been okay. But White/Krejza and Hussey/Clarke was painful to watch. AB's reaction was incredulous but he also had the benefit of not being on the chopping block. Can bet he wouldn't have taken the possibility of a ban lightly.

All that said, the bowling before tea only gave OZ a sniff. From memory, India went to tea 250+ ahead so, no matter what, OZ were up against it.

 

[Burgey]

I'm not saying his actions were good, I'm saying I can see why he did it in the situation he had placed himself in. No doubt he buggered it up, but the error imo was getting to that point in any event. Once he was there he either does what he did, and gets slammed for it, or bowls Lee who does his hair after every ball and the over rate gets worse and worse.

Bottom line is he stuffed up, frankly.

 

[Streetwise]

Yeah Ponting would make the greatest cricketers since 1980 in three different catagories, as Fielder, Batsman and captain.

 

[silentstriker]

Another potential awesome captaincy decision (for India) might be looming with the possibility Australia will play two spinners.

I love Ricky sometimes.

I think it's a bluff but oh how I can hope.

 

[Streetwise]

Another potential awesome captaincy decision (for India) might be looming with the possibility Australia will play two spinners.

I love Ricky sometimes.

I think it's a bluff but oh how I can hope.

Shouldent this be in the match thread, why are you trashing this thread.

 

[honestbharani]

Shouldent this be in the match thread, why are you trashing this thread.

get it.. discussing a trash captain's trash captaincy = trash...

 

[Streetwise]

get it.. discussing a trash captain's trash captaincy = trash...

I dont think you get it. Some posters think Ponting is a very good captain, some posters dont and keep trashing any thread or post that does not align with thier opinion. Are you and Silent striker going to vent your spleens on Ponting every time I post something positive about him. You will end up with a ulcer at this rate so mellow a little bit and try not to hate so much.

 

[Matt79]

People are entitled to disagree with you Streetwise. It's hardly trashing the thread given that's where to conversation has taken us. Chill.

I think we have got a bit bogged down in Ponting's captaincy as a criteria for assessing his greatness. His record as captain is better than any of the names he normally is compared to such as Sachin or Lara. I think it's fair to question whether he's a great captain, but you can't fairly call him a poor one given the success he's had.

 

[Jono]

Agree with the Matt.

I don't think Ponting is necessarily good captain, and he's certainly not a great captain.

He's done good things though, and was a better captain than Sachin and Lara.

I think it's worth pointing out that they had to deal with a cricket board at the time of their captaincies that did them no favours though.

 

[honestbharani]

I dont think you get it. Some posters think Ponting is a very good captain, some posters dont and keep trashing any thread or post that does not align with thier opinion. Are you and Silent striker going to vent your spleens on Ponting every time I post something positive about him. You will end up with a ulcer at this rate so mellow a little bit and try not to hate so much.

lol... u ever read CC? Or just posts about Ponting? The only reason many say negative stuff about him is that there are too many people willing to give him more credit than he deserves... chck out posts wth TC and the rest and then compare with yours.. There is all the difference.

 

[honestbharani]

People are entitled to disagree with you Streetwise. It's hardly trashing the thread given that's where to conversation has taken us. Chill.

I think we have got a bit bogged down in Ponting's captaincy as a criteria for assessing his greatness. His record as captain is better than any of the names he normally is compared to such as Sachin or Lara. I think it's fair to question whether he's a great captain, but you can't fairly call him a poor one given the success he's had.

you know, Matt.. I do think Ponting was a reasonable captain.. Not exactly good or great but decent, IMO.. But I also happen to think Lara and Sachin were decent captains too and would probably have had the same success as Ponting had they inherited the same side... And this whole argument is not even about Ponting vis-a-vis Lara and Sachin. We are talking about Ikki's stance of Ponting > Murali as a cricketer. I jus don't think he is anywhere near, leave alone being better. Check out the drafts and see who goes where for more reasoning.

 

[Matt79]

That's enough (re streetwise) HB.

 

[Jono]

Dhoni's better than them all tbh.

He's won the T20 World Cup and the IPL. The two greatest achievements a captain can have on their CV.

 

[Matt79]

Reckon Ponting's captaincy does enhance his record a bit, but not anywhere near enough to bridge the gap between him and Murali. Marking him down as player for his captaincy record is very much wrong in my view though.

 

[honestbharani]

Reckon Ponting's captaincy does enhance his record a bit, but not anywhere near enough to bridge the gap between him and Murali. Marking him down as player for his captaincy record is very much wrong in my view though.

well, as a cricketer, given that his captaincy was not at the level his batsmanship was is a downer, compared to say a Border or a Steve Waugh... Just like Sachin and Lara. Problem is, many of us do think Lara and Sachin were/are at a higher level as batsmen than Ponting, not a big gap, but a clear gap sorta thing... So while their captaincy is level B and batting level A (for example), they still end up at Level A. But if I rate Ponting's captaincy is Level B and his batting is something like a A- (not good enough to be A or bad enough to be B).. This is my reasoning about the ratings, at least...

 

[honestbharani]

That's enough (re streetwise) HB.

as you wish, Your Honour.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Dhoni's better than them all tbh.

He's won the T20 World Cup and the IPL. The two greatest achievements a captain can have on their CV.

AWTA. Everyone remembers who wins the 100 metres dash. No one gives a rats ass for those who win the marathon

 

[silentstriker]

I think we have got a bit bogged down in Ponting's captaincy as a criteria for assessing his greatness. His record as captain is better than any of the names he normally is compared to such as Sachin or Lara. I think it's fair to question whether he's a great captain, but you can't fairly call him a poor one given the success he's had.

I'm afraid I'm the culprit. I just mentioned it because someone used it as a positive.

His record is certainly better than Lara and Sachin, but Lara and Sachin did not have McWarne. I would call him a poor one solely based on the fact that if I had to face a world XI and pick a captain out of all of the current captains in international cricket at the moment, I'd pick Ponting to lead the opposition (excluding Pakistan, I don't have or want a clue about that situation).

However, that of course does not say anything about his absolutely magnificent fielding and batting. I think it's fair to rate him wherever people want, and if people want to rate him as a good captain, I think that's their call (I used to rate him as the best of all time based on win record...Nagpur ended that method for rating captains....).

Anyway, I won't say anything more on the matter as the discussion is certainly tangential to the main issue at hand - I just thought it interesting that people use his captaincy as a plus point and thought I'd mention my thoughts.

 

[Matt79]

I think Ponting has Sachin and Lara cold in captaincy terms, particularly Lara. I think giving either of the latter two a "B" is very generous. Ricky's personal performance never deteriorated when captain, he's been a strong captain for a long time and he (obviously with a good team) has won a hell of a lot. The absolute best you can say re Sachin is we never got to see what he might have produced as captain. And while Lara faced challenges the others didn't, it's hard to conclude he was anything but a failure overall as captain (insignificant as that is compared to his batting).